Disappointing GM policy re: support of human rights.

[Euphares]

You picked like the worst medium to try and spread a message regarding politics because most people, especially online, cannot handle an intelligent political discussion and will do anything to pretend it doesn't exist.

I'd argue children are more capable of understanding political nuance than most adults these days lol.

[Twizzlers]

i lover women

[GrizzlyTank]

Lots of people here conveniently ignoring that the event in question was on a US based realm so no one outside of it would even know it existed.

And that you could easily avoid this thread.

[Raven2014]

You picked like the worst medium to try and spread a message regarding politics because most people, especially online, cannot handle an intelligent political discussion and will do anything to pretend it doesn't exist.

Sure ... I guess politic is normally discussed with much more intelligence, grace and nuance in real life(?), that's why:

- A lot of workplace have policy not to bring up politic. I once saw 2 of my co-workers go at it, and I'm so glad we have that policy where I work.
- Politic discussion is so matured and level-head in real life that it's very very potent at ruining family gathering. That's why i heard many family effectively ban political topic for things like Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner.
- Our politic is super partisan, must be the result of everyone can speak calmly and intelligently face to face, including members of congress who sit next to each others. They're so mature I think they badmouth each others even more than people on the internet do.
- Sometime people don't even stop at just yelling at each other, but beating up and even killing each others over it too. So intellectual!! I guess you must have missed all of those wonderful peaceful demonstration, protest and counter-protest that usually end up with some people in the hospitals.

I'd argue children are more capable of understanding political nuance than most adults these days lol.

I'm sorry we don't meet your expectation, I do wonder does it make you feel smug and smart making that claim? As it has been explained, the reason why we have such policy in place is to protect us "children players" from the wondrous toxicity of real life politic that "adults like you" seem to be so proud of.

[Twizzlers]

By "vigil", I mean just standing in a line with campfires.

Clearly not "just" if you're putting up party finders and the like (and I'm sure there were plenty of people in shout / say chat talking about it too, going by the pictures of the event and the sheer amount of people involved)

I was not provided with a quote of the exact statement I made that was found inappropriate

Likely because you did more than just a single party finder advertisement and pulling up n lines of chat logs is not worth the effort if you're already aware of what you're doing.

nor was I shown which section of the Terms of Service I had been found to be violating- despite asking for this information specifically

Strong "let me speak to your manager" vibes in this part. If you shoplift from wally world and get busted by loss prevention, do you expect them to pull out the criminal code and cite specific lines?

There's no definition anywhere of what is and is not considered "political (activism)" ... We are just talking about human rights- why is that taboo?

Common sense. Game is game, real life is real life.

Would Square Enix ban people talking about Pride and LGBTQ+ rights if enough homophobes and transphobes were playing FFXIV? If not, how is this any different?

That'd fall under political activism too yes. But you don't see 50+ players holding fireplace lineups about that. Or flooding chat with garbage spam about it.

The reason we are taking the time to show our support for the right to abortion *in FFXIV* is because this -very, very political- game is a community to many, many of us- a community full of REAL people, who are impacted by the constant struggle for human rights, everywhere. Ignoring or escaping from "politics" is a luxury- for most of us, "politics" is an inescapable part of our lives.

There's a time and place for everything, but not now

I can vouch for the impact our group has had- I've lost count of how many people came up to our vigil to thank us and cheer us on.

Irrelevant. It's contributing nothing.

I've saved the chat logs, as well. They can be accessed here.

I wrote all of this before even noticing this last part. The game is neutral on anything related to the real life.

[RobynDaBank]

Lots of people here conveniently ignoring that the event in question was on a US based realm so no one outside of it would even know it existed.

And that you could easily avoid this thread.

Yeah. Everyone, just look away. No one is allowed to point out they broke ToS. Just let them rant and rave in peace and achieve less than zero, because it won't stop people being silently annoyed. All critics should just shut their mouth and go away.

You wouldn't stand up for the OP if the "rally" they held was for a viewpoint you didn't agree with. You wouldn't "avoid the thread" either, would you?

[Wanzzo]

I'm all for the support of human rights. I'm active in political and worker's rights forums and I'm trying to get into helping with local elections. I would go into detail about what I think of the US Supreme Court and the Right-wing Christo-fascist Fundies that are trying to drive us back into the dark ages, but I don't want to get another forum suspension.

But I also don't think that FFXIV is an appropriate place for this and having a little campfire "vigil" in a niche video game is nothing short of performative slacktivism. What you're doing is about as useful as changing your PFP on Facebook for a month to protest child abuse. It's a mostly harmless gesture, but it isn't helping anyone either. It might make you feel good in the moment, but it's nowhere near close to being a gesture that matters.

If you want to have an actual discussion where you can organize something that can make a tangible difference where in the real world, there are much better and more appropriate forums you can participate in. There are numbers you can call and email boxes you can clog. Do that instead of standing around pixelated fires in Ul'dah and getting upset when a GM tells you you can't advertise your gathering.

This is the best answer to this thread so far, IMO.

If someone wants to fight for social matters, the problem is not the intention, but the place, the target group, the media used. I suggest you take note of all those 65 people who joined you on the vigil to do things in real life, like acts of activism. When you are going to speak publicly you have to pay attention to the crowd that is listening (or not listening) to your words. That's why politicians and activists study things about oratory and speech construction. To make the biggest impact on the right audience.

Within an MMO you will not find the best audience for your words. Even when your intention is fair, caution is needed about when and where to say things. And why is this so? Because not everyone is there aiming the same as you while playing and not everyone has a common basis to understand, in the best way, your words and intentions. People are very different and take matters differently. In a game, the only common base is to play and have fun. To think about social issues is not a common thing. You can find such things inside universities, groups for that in social midias, etc.

That's why so many have come here to say things against your actions. Remember that at least I and a few others here are not against what you are saying, but against the way you are doing it.

Try to learn from it and you will definitely be someone who will make a difference in real life. You are not alone and learning from the veterans is always a useful thing!

[Ravenwatch]

Darn, sad to hear they were only a few ingame campfires away from reeling back the abortion changes.

[ijuakos_xqwzts]

This is the best answer to this thread so far, IMO.

It would have been better without the political mudslinging.

[Seger]

I'm 100% pro abortion rights and I stand with the GM on this one.

This is a videogame not Twitter or your average community college.