The absolute state of Frontlines

[Naphtha]

I've been playing FL on and off since Heavensward. I started playing mostly on Mana DC back in 2020 because I was tired of the kindergarten that is EU FL. I've played around 4200 matches on Mana and I know how they play. Since 6.1 FL on Mana has been absolutely atrocious. If you think JP players aren't abusing SMN and WHM, you're delusional. Let me tell you that every game consists of atleast 20-30 SMN and 20-30 WHM. I'm not even joking.
The only time there is some sort of normality is when I queue up with the PvP veterans because they at least mix it up somewhat, be ready to get absolutely destroyed by DRK and AST.

Honestly I don't think anybody who took more than 5 seconds to give it some thought believed the posts about "JP players don't have any issues with SMN due to superior skill" or whatever illogical claim.

In fact, if the JP servers have better players, I'd expect your post to be true, as abusing SMN LB stacking is probably the easiest way to win FLs consistently, without a single BH, I believe (Forgot the exact potency so can't check whether or not it'd work) that it takes only 4 Megaflares to kill 49,500 hp jobs, which is honestly pretty silly considering the size of the AoE.

Mad respect for AST players in FL though, shit is actually really entertaining to play and I don't even like playing healers.

[Naphtha]

without a single BH, I believe (Forgot the exact potency so can't check whether or not it'd work) that it takes only 4 Megaflares to kill 49,500 hp jobs, which is honestly pretty silly considering the size of the AoE.

I'm no longer too lazy to check, and for the sake of clarity, I will be showing the 'math' I use to see how many of one skill you need at a time to 'instagib' and what kind of BH you need. My sub is no longer running, so my knowledge of HP values per job type is a little blurry, but I don't recall any non-melee job having more than 54k hp with more than 20% DR.

Megaflare base potency = 18,000
18,000 x 0.8 = 14,400 (20% DR for non-melee jobs)
14,400 x 4 = 57,600 dmg, which is enough to kill any non-melee/tank job from full HP using FOUR summoners with no BH whatsoever.

Now, the obvious question would be, what's the minimum BH requirement you need in order to make it so 3 Megaflares are enough for an instagib?
14,400 x 1.2 (BH2) = 17,280 x 3 = 51,840 dmg. Enough to kill SOME jobs, but not quite enough, so that means you need a bare minimum of 3 BH3s in order to reduce the SMN count by 1 and still retain the same one-shot potential.
Of course, one SMN with a BH5 and two with varying BH levels could also work, it'd just take a while to list all the viable combinations.

And before anyone asks, I'm basing this off of my experience from figuring out MCH's LB limitations, I don't believe this is wrong, as it seemed to be dead accurate so far, but who knows? Maybe there's something off about it. Also, this is purely educational, I have never done SMN stacking and never will, I find it extremely cringe, personally.

[Sigma860]

Mad respect for AST players in FL though, shit is actually really entertaining to play and I don't even like playing healers.

Aye, AST is super fun now. It makes up for its lack of raw healing power with its versatility. Definitely the hidden gem of 6.1 PVP.

[gioroggia]

I wouldn't underestimate SCH's dmg, they can easily score a BH5 without really trying, and if you have a few SCHs with BH5 stacking DoTs you can easily do over 10k per tick of dmg, it's not something that is easily ignored. I've been the victim of ~14k dmg per tick from SCH dots, if you're unable to pot (Ongoing fight), it's a death sentence.

Yeah stacking dot changes things a little since it makes each tick actually somewhat threatening and help take down players who are not very attentive, or at least force them to retreat which in turn gives your team numerical advantage. But 4 scholars stacking coordinated dots is still not nearly as impactful as 4 summoners stacking their LBs. Not to mention other matters that make that type of coordination harder with scholar - it's more difficult to coordinate the dot cast than bahamuts, and it's quicker and easier to reach bh5 with summoner since scholars get few kills and rely mostly on assists. Point being, it's not like scholars are useless, just that the damage numbers we see at the table at the end of the match do not reflect their actual impact on the game. If we go solely bu that, we end up vastly overestimating them. On a side note, I just wish using deployment tactics on buffed party members (or yourself when buffed) would extend the buff to alliance members as well. Because party members don't really tend to stock together, that decreases the utility of adloquium + deployment compared to CC.

[gioroggia]

Not to mention Scholars have to put themselves at risk to get a good spread with their DOT a lot of times. Summoners can just sit back and cast and save their rush-down combo for enemies that dive in or stragglers that get left behind when the enemy team breaks.

I agree. And it's also worth mentioning that scholars have an astounding number of mobility tools - NONE. Your options to escape danger if you mess up your positioning, get pulled by a warrior or get shoved/kick-locked by a monk are non-existent. The only tool you have beyond the basic guard, recuperate, and purify is the measly adloquium heal/shield.

[Naphtha]

Yeah stacking dot changes things a little since it makes each tick actually somewhat threatening and help take down players who are not very attentive, or at least force them to retreat which in turn gives your team numerical advantage. But 4 scholars stacking coordinated dots is still not nearly as impactful as 4 summoners stacking their LBs. Not to mention other matters that make that type of coordination harder with scholar - it's more difficult to coordinate the dot cast than bahamuts, and it's quicker and easier to reach bh5 with summoner since scholars get few kills and rely mostly on assists. Point being, it's not like scholars are useless, just that the damage numbers we see at the table at the end of the match do not reflect their actual impact on the game. If we go solely bu that, we end up vastly overestimating them. On a side note, I just wish using deployment tactics on buffed party members (or yourself when buffed) would extend the buff to alliance members as well. Because party members don't really tend to stock together, that decreases the utility of adloquium + deployment compared to CC.

Yeah, I mean there's a reason why I made SMNs the target of my video, no stack even comes close to the raw potential of a SMN stack, which could easily wipe a big chunk of an alliance in an instant with only 4 or even just 3 SMNs working in tandem, which is nothing when each alliance has 24 people.

I wasn't trying to fluff up SCH too hard, it's just being slept on IMO considering how funny it can be to watch someone's HP bar slowly melt away while they struggle to pot it back up (Assuming they ran out of MP to recoup).

[gioroggia]

As someone who play as WHM a lot on FLs, and managed to do 3,5M+ healing several times with it, you'll also active heal and shield a lot and healing wise often people outside your 8 man group. While I agree that WHM naturally heals a lot just due how fast their LB charges (and said LB deserves a good nerf on it), those big numbers usually means you had to work your butt for it, principally if you have jobs on your team that require some heavy "babysitting" to shine on your team like GNB, WAR and MNK.

Indeed. My point is more like you'll heal more with WHM without even trying than you'll do if you play to perfection any of the other three healers. There's a very noticeable mismatch there, even in CC. I'm not saying it disrupts the game - I really don't know whether it does or not - just stating a fact.

And the part where you said that as a Scholar you have to pray your team doesn't kill your target before you can use deployment tactics is so true

[gioroggia]

Yeah, I mean there's a reason why I made SMNs the target of my video, no stack even comes close to the raw potential of a SMN stack, which could easily wipe a big chunk of an alliance in an instant with only 4 or even just 3 SMNs working in tandem, which is nothing when each alliance has 24 people.

I wasn't trying to fluff up SCH too hard, it's just being slept on IMO considering how funny it can be to watch someone's HP bar slowly melt away while they struggle to pot it back up (Assuming they ran out of MP to recoup).

Lol and I love when I get an unexpected kill from someone who escaped my team only to die to my dot

[Gserpent]

Aye, AST is super fun now. It makes up for its lack of raw healing power with its versatility. Definitely the hidden gem of 6.1 PVP.

AST isn't hidden, everyone knows it's overpowered as hell right now. I suppose it won't pad its stats on a scoreboard like WHM will, but it has a frankly absurd kit and the highest burst healing in the game. AST can dump 40k raw healing plus regen plus two shields into a single target in two GCDs and two oGCDs... WHM has the next-highest healing and has to hard cast a pair of 1.44s spells on 2.4s GCD to only reach 24k.

No one else comes even remotely close to AST in healing output, and AST isn't slacking in the damage department either (28k burst, all of it being AOE, and it includes heavy and bind, or 10k per typically every other 1.44s cast.) Then you add in the card buffs and Macrocosmos effect... yeah, AST's kind of broken right now. Has been ever since they increased Macrocosmos to 12k for some stupid reason, though I think its kit alone would still have made it a bit too strong even without the Macro buff. I suppose it's not King Turd of Shit Mountain in FL, though. That's probably WHM.

[Divinemights]

Yup, told you they are going to use this method to bring down Ranges on Frontline.
The nerf on BLM but not SMN exactly showing SMN is not dominate at other regions