Refugees (Spoilers)

[thegreatonemal]

It's far more complicated than that though - there is still lingering resentment and contempt by Gridania towards Ala Mhigo due to the Autumn War that occured a century before (basically Ala Mhigo attacked Gridania, resulting in the rest of Eorzea allying with Gridania to drive Ala Mhigo's forces back over the Velodyna), and even in the present day, there is still the air of "you attacked us back then, you got what you deserved you warmongers".

Of course the present day generation were not alive when that happened and only heard about the war through second information, but the padjal who are ageless would - hell, it was stated back in 1.0 that the bloodshed the Ala Mhigans caused back then still has a lingering effect on the forest to this day, and unfortunately the elementals being completely obtuse don't differentiate between "the ones who caused death and destruction in the forest 100 years ago" to "innocents fleeing war", it's all the same to them.

I'm aware of the war but there is nothing in game that says that there are lingering tensions outside of the bard quests because one person has a personal grudge.
The Elementals don't not care about people in that way which is why the people living in the forest are so xenophobic, If anybody breaks the rules than the forest holds all people into account. Considering that they do let some refugees in during ARR and they reject some is proof of that. They just chose who can live there and who can't at random. The only group that they seem to have outright banned is the Ixal(not even all of them).

[MikkoAkure]

I'm aware of the war but there is nothing in game that says that there are lingering tensions outside of the bard quests because one person has a personal grudge.
The Elementals don't not care about people in that way which is why the people living in the forest are so xenophobic, If anybody breaks the rules than the forest holds all people into account. Considering that they do let some refugees in during ARR and they reject some is proof of that. They just chose who can live there and who can't at random. The only group that they seem to have outright banned is the Ixal(not even all of them).

A war isn't a "one and done" event. It was the only war Gridania had ever taken part in its history against another non-beastman nation up until very recently, and it was the first time another country fully invaded it and posed an existential threat. It was also the genesis of city-state cooperation in Eorzea, the first time they all came together to fight a common foe and led to where we are now and a common Eorzean identity. It was also the genesis of the Bard job, which spread patriotic stories about the war to years to come, and the Lancers' Guild, which still exists today. And for years after the war, Gridania shared a long border with a belligerent, militaristic, and unstable nation whose main export was mercenaries and then after a purge, civil war, and invasion, they exported refugees and Garlean spies.

After the war, Ishgard and Gridania even held reenactments and mock battles in celebration every year, so it's not like it's something that disappeared from the public consciousness.


My point was that Gridanians view all outsiders with suspicion. But I would imagine that with the history they have, Ala Mhigans already have more baggage than a Lominsan or an Ul'dahn in the eyes of the average Gridanian citizen.

The fact that we have a whole questline around a guy being angry about it shows that some are less OK than others. While I'm sure many Gridanians are accepting, Nourval wasn't alone, he had a whole band of people with him that hated Ala Mhigo. Though the majority probably lie in between the extremes of him and Beatin. In that questline one of the NPCs even says that Gridanians are already grumbling about Ala Mhigan liberation. The point of the story arc is to stop Nourval because he would fan the embers of mistrust specifically aimed at Ala Mhigans into a diplomatic crisis.

[thegreatonemal]

A war isn't a "one and done" event. It was the only war Gridania had ever taken part in its history against another non-beastman nation up until very recently, and it was the first time another country fully invaded it and posed an existential threat. It was also the genesis of city-state cooperation in Eorzea, the first time they all came together to fight a common foe and led to where we are now and a common Eorzean identity. It was also the genesis of the Bard job, which spread patriotic stories about the war to years to come, and the Lancers' Guild, which still exists today. And for years after the war, Gridania shared a long border with a belligerent, militaristic, and unstable nation whose main export was mercenaries and then after a purge, civil war, and invasion, they exported refugees and Garlean spies.

After the war, Ishgard and Gridania even held reenactments and mock battles in celebration every year, so it's not like it's something that disappeared from the public consciousness.


My point was that Gridanians view all outsiders with suspicion. But I would imagine that with the history they have, Ala Mhigans already have more baggage than a Lominsan or an Ul'dahn in the eyes of the average Gridanian citizen.

The fact that we have a whole questline around a guy being angry about it shows that some are less OK than others. While I'm sure many Gridanians are accepting, Nourval wasn't alone, he had a whole band of people with him that hated Ala Mhigo. Though the majority probably lie in between the extremes of him and Beatin. In that questline one of the NPCs even says that Gridanians are already grumbling about Ala Mhigan liberation. The point of the story arc is to stop Nourval because he would fan the embers of mistrust specifically aimed at Ala Mhigans into a diplomatic crisis.

This one seemed to be, again you can't really point to anything aside from one guy in the bard quest who even brings it up as a potential spark point. I think you're overselling the state of Ala Mhigo after the war

Where is that in game? I haven't seen anything about that.

I see your point there is just nothing to support your point, the bard quest is one guy's personal grudge because his relative was the Gridanian General during the war and he was assassinated. He thinks letting everybody know that he was killed and instead of dying of an illness will spark negative reactions. We are asked to intervene, not because it's a serious threat but because why let a spark turn into something when we can stop it. The quest line just isn't framed like it would be a major problem, smoke without a whole lot of fire.

[MikkoAkure]

This one seemed to be, again you can't really point to anything aside from one guy in the bard quest who even brings it up as a potential spark point. I think you're overselling the state of Ala Mhigo after the war

Where is that in game? I haven't seen anything about that.

I see your point there is just nothing to support your point, the bard quest is one guy's personal grudge because his relative was the Gridanian General during the war and he was assassinated. He thinks letting everybody know that he was killed and instead of dying of an illness will spark negative reactions. We are asked to intervene, not because it's a serious threat but because why let a spark turn into something when we can stop it. The quest line just isn't framed like it would be a major problem, smoke without a whole lot of fire.

It's not just one guy. He had a group of people with him and it's described as a faction. The people on our side in the quest agreed that if it got out, it would be bad. He wasn't just some Gridanian general, he was a hero. He was invited to a peace conference and poisoned and Gridania would have lost the war after if Eorzea wasn't convinced to come together. The fact that it's treated as a big enough deal means that there's still embers of resentment that can catch fire.

And Nourval seeks to use it to stoke the fires of anti-Ala Mhigan sentiment to some sinister end. This cannot be borne─we cannot let them have the journal! Are you with me?

To this day, Lord Vainchelon remains an object of worship among many Gridanians. Were they to learn of this, the present grumblings against Ala Mhigan liberation are liable to grow into large-scale protests.

Had it been made known that their hero was struck down by treachery, ordinary Gridanians would not have been satisfied with protecting their homes. Nay, they would have demanded justice. They would have demanded blood.
The war would have raged on, leaving yet more death and destruction in its wake. And the peace that Lord Vainchelon dreamed of would have gone up in smoke. Knowing this, Lord Landrenel...

If you're asking where the reenactment thing was in the game, that's mentioned in a leve, I believe. I lot of good lore about random day-to-day things are locked in leve descriptions.

[Vyrerus]

I particularly like the Levequest lore in Quarrymill revolving around making arms and armor for Ala Mhigans who've joined the settlement's militia or something akin to that. It's been quite a while since I read through the crafter leves there, though.

As far as tensions from the Autumn War go, it's about the same distance back in time as World War II is now. While it wasn't a war of that scale, plenty of conflicts from 60+ years ago still ripple into today in a lot of ways, on personal levels. People's kids and grandkids learn the stories. They see the trauma of war etched into their elders' faces. Gridanian's mistrust and call for blood all make sense. It would have been a big deal.

[Zero-ELEC]

Generational trauma is a very real thing.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Proximity is just one part of where refugees end up.

Ala Mhigo has a complicated history with Gridania and for more than one reason aren’t completely welcome there. There is a small number of refugees in Gridania, but per the carpenter quests, they’re not well liked by the Gridanians, who generally don’t like outsiders to begin with. Any immigrant also needs to be accepted by the elementals and then for the rest of their life in the forest, follow the rules or risk the greenwrath.

Limsa Lominsa and Ul’dah both have plenty of work available, but Ul’dah is closer to everyone and has more of a reputation as being a place where “anyone can get rich”. Ul’dah also already has a population of Ala Mhigan refugees and immigrants are more likely to gather where others from their same culture are. An Ala Mhigan would have a much better network of support in Ul’dah than in Limsa Lominsa.

The appeal of Limsa Lominsa is that by its nature it’s a place you go to if you want to hide, which is why some NPCs end up there.

I mean.... Ul'dah also does a pretty good job of showing us that while it may very well be a city-state where anyone can work the Bloodsands and end up filthy rich and win a seat on the Syndicate, it's uh..... also not that bloody simple. No, the real winner here is Gosetsu. That man sailed the whole flippin' sea for SOMEONE ELSE. He's the true hero of the plot, a legend to be told across the ages. Who is even IS this WoL putz?

In all seriousness, there isn't really any one ideal choice for refugees to settle in Eorzea. That's actually a rather realistic showing of the utter crudmuffins actual irl refugees go through, and I appreciate that. The effort they put in is commendable. None of the options are particularly, uh. Appealing.

[Luizgazen]

About the lingering resentment between Gridanians and Ala Mhigans, don't forget that elezen are stated to live up to around 180 years... so most of the elezens that were present during war times are probably still around, and that Ala Mhigo was was basically Garlemald back in the day, in that they were a massive invading force which forced the rest of Eorzea to unite to fight back.

[thegreatonemal]

About the lingering resentment between Gridanians and Ala Mhigans, don't forget that elezen are stated to live up to around 180 years... so most of the elezens that were present during war times are probably still around, and that Ala Mhigo was was basically Garlemald back in the day, in that they were a massive invading force which forced the rest of Eorzea to unite to fight back.

120 there about and most people are never gonna make it to that age. This is a medieval world and they live in a place where the forest can delete you if you step on the wrong mushroom. Also Ala Mhigo invaded to take land (East Ends and part of Central Shourd.)
Ishgard joined because they saw it as a potential threat if Ala Mhigo would continue their advance. Limsa and Uldah joined so that Gridania would owe them a favor and it would reduce Ala Mhigo's military might, as they were the strongest on the continent. Comparing them to the Garleans is just way out there.

[Necrotica]

120 there about and most people are never gonna make it to that age. This is a medieval world and they live in a place where the forest can delete you if you step on the wrong mushroom. Also Ala Mhigo invaded to take land (East Ends and part of Central Shourd.)
Ishgard joined because they saw it as a potential threat if Ala Mhigo would continue their advance. Limsa and Uldah joined so that Gridania would owe them a favor and it would reduce Ala Mhigo's military might, as they were the strongest on the continent. Comparing them to the Garleans is just way out there.

Most would make it to that age I would think since they have magical healing flowing like tap water there.