Healers need an overhaul

[Kolsykol]

It's true that singleplayer content would suffer with lower DPS, I was just moreso trying to load it with some baggage to see how much people wanted more buttons to press vs want to deal more damage.
Imo I'd probably want to have the same damage but more complex rotations.

I imagine this would upset some people tho but ultimately I think that the numerical damage output atm with Healers compared to Tanks compared to DPS is fine.
A decision would have to be made about this tho.

Snip

I agree with the overall sentiment but not in practice here.
Healers are already not far off from Tanks in regards to damage and that's with the 1 1 1 1 1 1 spam in terms of dps.
So atm Healers are almost dealing the same damage but with much less effort, giving them more complex rotations would actually equalize it more, while giving them that plus higher damage would put them on the level of Tanks with probably still less effort tbh.
I mean this all depends on how far they go and what other changes and rebalances may happen but ultimately that'd mostly be to adress an issue that doesn't need to become an issue to begin with.

But what you're describing is already an issue as it is in that Healers don't rly have to put any effort into doing almost the same damage as Tanks whom also have to juggle more frequent Tank specific mechanics and managing the boss.

Edit: In the end of the day I think people need to look at their dps in the context of how the other roles are performing and not solely the numerical output of Healers currently.
Raising the dps of Healers would introduce new problems and would necessitate more overarching changes and rebalancing that wouldn't even be necessary if they just kept it the same numerically.
The end result if they actually did adress it too with overarching balance changes would still be the same, only difference that Healers dps increased but contextually stayed the same.
I don't really see the point of this it's more of an emotional thing of seeing the numbers get higher but in effect not being any different.

Imo I think if they made the rotations more complex then the same dps for more effort is just something we'd have to bite the bullet on.
And it might sting at first but long-term it's an issue resolved and it'll sink in.
Healers issues currently are a bit more unique and very different than issues with SAM for example.
I think to adress it without having to make these huge changes to the entire game would mean that Healers are going to get an increase in difficulty without the reward.
Because currently the scales are swinging in the exact opposite direction where Healers are getting almost the same reward but with basically no effort.

[IDontPetLalas]

snip
I agree with the overall sentiment but not in practice here.
I mean this all depends on how far they go and what other changes and rebalances may happen but ultimately that'd mostly be to adress an issue that doesn't need to become an issue to begin with.
But what you're describing is already an issue as it is in that Healers don't rly have to put any effort into doing almost the same damage as Tanks whom also have to juggle more frequent Tank specific mechanics and managing the boss.
Edit: In the end of the day I think people need to look at their dps in the context of how the other roles are performing and not solely the numerical output of Healers currently.
Raising the dps of Healers would introduce new problems and would necessitate more overarching changes and rebalancing that wouldn't even be necessary if they just kept it the same numerically.
*snip*
I don't really see the point of this it's more of an emotional thing of seeing the numbers get higher but in effect not being any different.

Imo I think if they made the rotations more complex then the same dps for more effort is just something we'd have to bite the bullet on.
And it might sting at first but long-term it's an issue resolved and it'll sink in.
Healers issues currently are a bit more unique and very different than issues with SAM for example.
I think to adress it without having to make these huge changes to the entire game would mean that Healers are going to get an increase in difficulty without the reward.
Because currently the scales are swinging in the exact opposite direction where Healers are getting almost the same reward but with basically no effort.

That's your opinion, I disagree. You are arguing from the position of "tanks have a more difficult role, hence healers should do less damage". First of all, that's a hot topic where I could easily find a number of tank mains who would dispute that. Secondly, I would make the argument that why shouldn't healers have that increase since healers will be avoiding mechanics that tanks may often (not always) ignore, and heal party members? Makes no sense.

Saying that raising the DPS of healers requires rebalancing is a weak argument if it (a) improves QOL, plus re-balancing is a fact of life - it has happened and will happen again.

Finally this "scales are swinging in the exact opposite direction where Healers are getting almost the same reward but with basically no effort"? Where is this even coming from? There is no "reward" coming to healers. There have been issues brought up for years that healers have wanted corrected. When a DPS gets a skill removed, the complaints started immediately with a demand for correction ASAP - it was not considered as a "reward". No one expected to be condescended to and told "it may sting for a bit , but long-term, it's OK".

[pikalovr]

snip

good let the game be rebalanced it's about time it did anyways like i said effort should equal reward so there's no reason a SMN or RDM should be dealing less average RDPS as a BLM ffs. the entire games combat needs a rework but properly scaling DPS is a good first step. BLM rn can deal more damage by HIMSELF to outdo the damage gained from RDPS for SMN and RDM which shouldn't be the case. buffer jobs should be able to rely on their party to hit overall DPS (RDPS) equal to just bringing in a selfish DPS so it's a choice of who do you want to bring in the easier buffing job where you can contribute to people who might be playing another selfish job? or do you yourself play the selfish job that requires more effort on yourself to reach the same DPS (hint most people would still prolly choose the easier buffer DPS cause relying on 7 other people is easier than getting better yourself. but it's the choice that counts.)

bruh you actually think tanks have responsibility? we hit the mob and hit DRs and then we do nothing but our burst and 1-2-3 until the next TB (if it's a boss fight) pretty much. bosses will literally reposition THEMSELVES to the center of the arena so almost all that positioning is taken away from us. we have almost no responsibilities anymore cause oh no little timmy here can't handle moving the boss.

healers are already basically 2/3DPS of a tank. even with a 300-400DPS increase at peak optimized game play would prolly put the absolute top healers in the camp of slightly above average PLD and WAR players, and the average DPS increase of 50-100DPS would literally change nothing. and they're putting in MORE work now so thatd be perfectly acceptable. even tho i wish EVERY role would be forced to put in more effort even during downtimes or in the fights themselves with mechanics but thats a different debate once again.

asking for more reward for more effort is not an emotional thing it's literally god damn common sense. stop trying to play devils advocate and making strawman arguments when the numbers themselves back up what we want. and even if we did completely rework teh combat to adjust DPS values where we still equal 2/3rd a tanks DPS we would still ask for more damage anyways. either add more responsibilities to the other roles and more to do during their downtimes so they have a reason to be so much higher in DPS. SMN is a great example the biggest thing you have to think about is can i sit here for 2 ifrit hardcasts/garuda hardcast? and it still deals significantly more damage than BRD a way more active and proc based playstyle. or hell i'll do you one better it deals more damage than RDM