What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

I didn't want the 'Sound' to have anything to do with the Ancients. People were griping about Hydaelyn as evil being a trope when progenitor species/civilizations being the instruments of their own demise is even more of a trope.

I suppose at least this wasn't Meteion's intended purpose. Hermes didn't create her to task her with testing the mettle of all life in the cosmos and, if I'm being generous, the main flaw in the Meteia is they were imbued with free will. Otherwise, they could've been ordered to return even if all else remained the same. I don't believe Hermes was aware the Meteia were capable of something like the Song of Oblivion/Final Days either or at least I don't recall any indicators he was.

I strongly believe that if XIV were single player, it would be the best FF game to date.

I would agree with this in terms of less tap dancing around anything involving the player character, which inhibits interactions. As an example, for as brilliant as Emet is, his characterization is limited by not encroaching upon the Azem/WoL identities since that's the player. Were we RPing a premade, fully fleshed out character the writers would be allowed to explore their history and dynamic together more.

I've often wished instead of linking Azem directly to the WoL that they would've made Azem a separate identity who shared the same soul, like Ardbert. I feel like the story of Azem is hamstrung by making them 'us' instead of their own person (despite the game simultaneously insisting that we're not the same).

[CrownySuccubus]

...if I'm being generous, the main flaw in the Meteia is they were imbued with free will. Otherwise, they could've been ordered to return even if all else remained the same. I don't believe Hermes was aware the Meteia were capable of something like the Song of Oblivion/Final Days either or at least I don't recall any indicators he was.

As far as I'm aware, all Ancient concepts are born with free will, with the exception of Zodiark (and, probably, Hydaelyn). Free will =/= sapience, mind you.

On top of that, I'd imagine that dynamis, an invisible energy born of emotion, requires some level of autonomy and will to manipulate. I'd argue that free will itself wasn't the Meteia's flaw, but rather Hermes' failure to help them cope with or reason through negative emotions. Especially if those emotions are the current/last things sentient beings feel.

I would also guess that their ability to talk to the dead wasn't intended, and there was no way for Hermes to know they could do that. But frankly, I find it more silly that the narrative wants us to assume that every dead person and entity in the universe is in agony and suffering. But, that's the crux of the "To live is to suffer" mindset, sooooo...

[Rulakir]

Speaking to/of Meteion:

[CrownySuccubus]

Speaking to/of Meteion:

I was half-right. The full dialogue is:

Meteion: That's me, that's me! An entelechy!
Hermes: That you are, my dear. And no ordinary one at that, but the first possessed of free will.

Given that the only other entelechy we know of is the Elpis flower, a plant that only displays dynamis but cannot otherwise utilize it, my point stands.

[Rosenstrauch]

Amazing. The free period gave me enough active sub time to be able to access the forums again. It's been four months since I quit over 6.0 + the February Q&A. All I could manage to accomplish was logging back in, checking out my house, logging back out, and turning on Mass Effect 2 instead. Romanced Garrus, that lovable dorky Punisher. Made friends with a geth platform. Gave Tali a hug. Saved the galaxy from bug men. Blew up a star system to delay a full scale invasion from eldritch abominations. Fun stuff. I've also been writing an ongoing FFXIV fanfic, partly against my better judgment, partly because I was just so wholly dissatisfied with Endwalker that I wanted to at least headcanon a better ending for my WoL in particular. It's trashy, mediocre fix fic bullshit, but it's my trashy, mediocre fix fic bullshit, and I'm happy enough with it that I've kept at it for eight (going on nine) chapters.


All that aside, here's a shower thought—what if Meteion had been introduced in patch 5.5, and took on the role Emet-Selch had in Shadowbringers—our on and off companion/observer?

EDIT: Like, an example I thought up while imagining that scenario. You remember the part in Thavnair where we try and fail to rescue a couple and their baby, resulting in that baby almost drowning? And how we still tried to save that baby, and it nearly turned into a blasphemy (almost wrote sin eater, lol) anyways?

Meteion could react to that, asking why we tried so hard to save the baby when its death was all but certain. And whatever answer we give her (All life is worth protecting? Children are innocent? We weren't going to let it all be naught? I don't know, I just did it? etc.) would be filtered back into The Message™, whatever it is.

Or the scene where we're introduced to Elpis Flowers, Meteion could be the one to point them out to us (Hydaelyn can still be there, I guess), and reveal that she knows what they are, but can't remember where they came from or what their significance is (she's an amnesiac, natch). And then later on when we go to Elpis (with her, natch), observing the horror show that events there spiraled into would be what triggers her to remember what happened there (including meeting us) and where she went after Hermes ordered her to flee.

As an aside, this would also avoid the need for Venat to retain her memories of us, at least until either her initial foray into the aetherial sea (she's been there 12,000-ish years) or upon her defeat. And we'd still need to confront her regardless, since our plan to go to Ultima Thule still requires a shitload of aether.

[CrownySuccubus]

All that aside, here's a shower thought—what if Meteion had been introduced in patch 5.5, and took on the role Emet-Selch had in Shadowbringers—our on and off companion/observer?

I think there's no question that any level of development would have been better than "damn near none at all".

Based on her personality in Elpis, though. I think I personally would have thought of her as annoying "waifu-bait" before the twist.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Amazing. The free period gave me enough active sub time to be able to access the forums again. It's been four months since I quit over 6.0 + the February Q&A. All I could manage to accomplish was logging back in, checking out my house, logging back out, and turning on Mass Effect 2 instead. Romanced Garrus, that lovable dorky Punisher. Made friends with a geth platform. Gave Tali a hug. Saved the galaxy from bug men. Blew up a star system to delay a full scale invasion from eldritch abominations. Fun stuff. I've also been writing an ongoing FFXIV fanfic, partly against my better judgment, partly because I was just so wholly dissatisfied with Endwalker that I wanted to at least headcanon a better ending for my WoL in particular. It's trashy, mediocre fix fic bullshit, but it's my trashy, mediocre fix fic bullshit, and I'm happy enough with it that I've kept at it for eight (going on nine) chapters.


All that aside, here's a shower thought—what if Meteion had been introduced in patch 5.5, and took on the role Emet-Selch had in Shadowbringers—our on and off companion/observer?

Personally it wouldn’t change much for me. She just isn’t that compelling of a villain and they’ve done the whole, “creation decides to make everyone else suffer” shtick before, ala Kuja. I think any villain who, after a 10 year arc is defeated by a hug is just not a good one. I would’ve much preferred some sort of cosmic entity or something along those lines.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

Based on what?
Apart from story it does all single-player FF aspects worse than every decent FF game. Even some of the bad ones. Because of its design compromises to fit as a MMO that caters to people who don't like learning how to play video games.

Based on the fact that it would have no crowds to cater to therefore the story won’t get as compromised as what we have. The gameplay would also have been considerably different too, either turn based or whatever XVI is doing.

[Rulakir]

Amazing. The free period gave me enough active sub time to be able to access the forums again. It's been four months since I quit over 6.0 + the February Q&A. All I could manage to accomplish was logging back in, checking out my house, logging back out, and turning on Mass Effect 2 instead.

You should do the Omega quest chain if you haven't already, it provides some catharsis.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Eh?

Being quite frank, FFXIV's post-2.0 gameplay (especially combat gameplay) is way more directly involved than most mainline games in the series. If we're arguing that this game caters to people "who don't like learning to play videogames" more than FFXII's Gambit System, the FFXIII series' Auto-Battle system, or FFXV's "Just get close and hold one button" system, I'm gonna have to disagree.

I'm nowhere near a fan of FFXIV's gameplay or progression loops, but I'm seriously curious how one can even come to this conclusion.

Ah yes nothing more engaging and directly involved than spamming the same one button as a healer.