Healers need an overhaul

[Semirhage]

Funny you said that, seeing how current design trend in the last 7-8 years of the game actually in line with my reasoning and run completely opposite to yours ... so whose opinion you think are inconsequential? If mine is, than what should we call yours?

I'll tell you what I don't miss. I don't miss the constant bickering and party breakup over enmity when tank dancing was a thing. I don't miss the day where I had to constantly worry about what my co-healer doing. You know, I main an AST these days, and I don't even mind having WHM as a co whenever I'm on SGE. Despite their meme status of glare mage or the blood lily meme, they are far better the era of "stone mage" when healer DPS was more ... interesting according to some of you.

If you want to argue those days were more interesting, sure I can give you that. But I'm not sure if they were more fun dealing with all the shenanigans back then, the class may not be as "interesting", but PF experience these days are mile better than it was 2 expansion ago, and for me, that's more fun. As for how we get here, well, I already state my inconsequential take on it. :P




Well, you know life is never about getting what you want just because you screaming for it from the top of your lung. Often time your behavior is observed, and life will give you what you "deserved", whether you like it or not. And of course, the "you, we, our" here are used in the context of an MMO. Maybe all of my reason sounds nonsense to you because it doesn't apply to you ... fair. But hey, if they applies to the majority of players ... than guess what, that's all that matter.

That's why I have been using the word "community" in my post. The current status of healer may not be what the community want, but given pass behavior and performance, it is no less than what the community deserve.

And I honestly don't think it will change unless the meta mentality of the community change.

So you got Chadded by a cohealer one time back in Heavensward, therefore the entire role deserves to be punished with the most boring one-button downtime activity in the entire genre as retribution. Some evil mustache-twirling dirty parser healer refused to HEAL ONLY, Yoshida stood up and yelled at them, and the whole bus clapped.

"Some healers slipped up managing a balance between healing and damage at some point, ergo the whole role deserves to be designed badly as a punishment" is Standard Sylphie Argument Number Four, and I'm already falling asleep. Almost as quickly as Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic Malefic puts me to sleep.

[Lilapop]

I believe you mean "DPS" being out-DPSed by a healer, and aside from low-level levelling trash runs, where not all jobs have their skills- if you take 2 equally competent players and stack a BLM , a RPR or a SAM next to a SGE, or an AST for example are you seriously saying that the AST (for example ) is going to out-DPS those DPS?? Do you honestly think that it takes a "perfect" BLM to out DPS an AST because typically will fail to get healed now?

I do understand that change can be unsettling when it affects things that we like. However, it looks like you are concerned that people who play heals are incapable of making decisions, but can you explain that? I don't see why healers can't decide when to heal and when to DPS, they already make these decisions. They're already expected to contribute, just like any other job, if not they can be replaced - however that can't be harassed for that under the TOS.

well the issue is you're comparing two players of equal competence that know their class enough to be considered "good" at it. usually, there's always at least 1-2 per party (4man or 8man) that don't know their stuff. I'm saying that if you put a competent healer next to an incompetent sam/rpr/blm that the healer has out-dpsed the incompetent players before. which puts more of a "healer u Gotta focus on dps" thing before focusing on healing.

I feel like you're getting completely off track with my point. I'm not concerned with decision making ability of healer players. also can't help but notice that subtle implication that healing itself isn't contributing there. no one is saying anyone, no matter the class should be harassed, either?

[anhaato]

sounds like we're having two entirely different conversations here? i never claimed every single fight required every single spell to be used.

You’re doing this on purpose then. Fights usually don’t require your full kit, that which you say is the point of healers, so most of it is just spamming 1 and that’s the issue. Since you’re now arguing against yourself, I’m just going to assume you’re a troll.

[MintnHoney]

If I have such negative prognosis as you claim

You are, indeed, coming from somewhere negative. No amount of personal enjoyment you have with the role or personal achievements you can claim to have will mask the fact that all you've used as a reasoning for your opinion is that you've experienced bad things. But that's not a fair and solid basis, it's just an understandable one.

So feel free to dismiss and make fun of my opinion, it's no big deal. I have no need for agreement on the forum, in game is where it counts. And unless you're not being honest to yourself, you would know the current reality match whose opinion.

I would be happier knowing that your need to come off as taking this in stride and, therefore, being in a better and healthier state of mind about this was not supposed to be illustrated by you're interchanging basic socialization with the state of a video game, but I suppose this is about the most I could ask for after the failed attempts at garnering support by badgering others in here and on the healer forums.

Nevertheless, your words are as inconsequential as your earlier arguments; we do not like the current state of healers, hence this and the other threads. Whether you were here to try and argue against it or not, healers would still need an overhaul.

[Raven2014]

So you got Chadded by a cohealer one time back in Heavensward

You know the meme about people people reading only the headline and go ballistic without a glance at the article itself. It's similar to that here, even worse actually because it would like you only read half of the headline. Because if the very same sentence I mentioned that "chad" healer, I also said:

Oh, you think I haven't tried? Given my resentment of the matter, it'll be an easy guess for you how that often turn out. I still remember this answer a 99% stone mage gave me when I asked him/her to heal more: "why should my parse suffer for doing more than the minimum"? And that answer was the norm, not an exception

Not only that, I had repeatably stated my opinion is form from long and frequent history with PF. So either you are just being extreme selective and cherry picking just to dismiss my opinion, or just are not even put in the afford to have an argument in good faith.

So ... please put in more effort?

[Raven2014]

No amount of personal enjoyment you have with the role or personal achievements you can claim to have will mask the fact that all you've used as a reasoning for your opinion is that you've experienced bad things.

Correct, but pray tell how is yours different? I have (had) problem with how people approach playing the job, you have problem with the job itself. After all, if there isn't a problem why would you be complaining? I argue for a better grouping experience, you argue for a better personal experience, why is that mine is negative and not yours? Or do you only see issue in other argument, but never your own?

I guess the difference is mine went from bad to good, so naturally I argue I don't want go back to the bad. Yours went from good to bad, so you argue for the good old days. But that difference does not make the kind of different in the formality of our argument in term of making one more positive than other.

Nevertheless, your words are as inconsequential as your earlier arguments; we do not like the current state of healers, hence this and the other threads. Whether you were here to try and argue against it or not, healers would still need an overhaul.

Also correct, my word is indeed very inconsequential. At the very least, it is as inconsequential as yours or any others. Of course, you and other are freely to state your desire why healer should need an overhaul just like I'm freely pop in and say thanks but not thanks (which basically the tl;dr version of everything I had said).

I even just state this on the last page:

For the record, I'm under no illusion that I will change anyone opinion here, I merely state my opinion on the matter just like how everyone state theirs. You're badly mistaken if you think I'm trying to do more than that. I don't care about having the last word here or to assert my stance

So is there a point to us keep reciting these grandeur but utterly pointless and inconsequential statement?

[Lilapop]

You’re doing this on purpose then. Fights usually don’t require your full kit, that which you say is the point of healers, so most of it is just spamming 1 and that’s the issue. Since you’re now arguing against yourself, I’m just going to assume you’re a troll.

you can just say you don't understand and would like me to reiterate, which I will do; I never said fights required the full kit, I said a lot of healers are unaware of even how to use said kit. is the 1 spam really a huge issue? would you prefer more busywork button presses? why do healers need more buttons? what does their current kit not have that you believe they need more of other than button quantity?

amount of button presses per "rotation " =/= fun & riveting gameplay

[MintnHoney]

So is there a point to us keep reciting these grandeur but utterly pointless and inconsequential statement? :?

Only in as much as you want there to be, since you keep returning to make them. That's your cross to bear, though.

[Raven2014]

Only in as much as you want there to be, since you keep returning to make them. That's your cross to bear, though.

I'm not returning to it more than you and others. In my defense, there is one me and like 3-5 of you, so I should have the liberty of repeat similar things because I need to reply to different people. But you know what, now this starts feeling like petty bickering, so let's stop before "making fun of the poster" become the main purpose of the posts rather the side content. (Kinda like how DPS become the main job for healer, get the pun?).

Discuss the topic, not the poster. And I'm saying that fully aware I'm not 100% adhere to that creed myself, but I'll try harder.

[Nizzi]

Not anhaato, but

I said a lot of healers are unaware of even how to use said kit.

is the 1 spam really a huge issue? would you prefer more busywork button presses? why do healers need more buttons? what does their current kit not have that you believe they need more of other than button quantity?

Yes, it is boring. Yes, I would prefer more DoTs, more things to track that are actually contributing to the party, etc etc. Cookie clicker gameplay is not fun, actually. Why don't healers need more buttons? Is there a justification for why every single healer in the game has this gameplay when previously they did not? Not a single job in any other role has this little to do in all content. This game isn't just solely raids, and even if it was - it isn't acceptable. If this is so fun, I really want tanks and DPS to all play like this. "b-but thats different" No it isn't. I fully support and endorse every tank and DPS job losing all of their ridiculously bloated buttons and I really hope they continue to do it. If it's good for us, it's good for you. (Edit: I do not actually want this, it's just to the point that the people who support healers staying 1-1-1-1 are against tanks and DPS becoming that.)

amount of button presses per "rotation " =/= fun & riveting gameplay

So we are in agreement then. Tanks and DPS need to lose their insane amounts of bloat. So many tanks and DPS players are unaware of even how to use said kit, so there's no point to it. If we have fun pressing 1-1-1-1, so will they.