Old content has become so easy that it is no longer fun

[Makiyaa]

Hey. I didn't read the whole topic but I 100% agree with the main idea. I cleared Pandaemonium last weak and start some old Savage raid in MINE,but it was ... disappointing. I feel that some mechanics should kill use several time but it doesn't, the DPS check is no more existing, etc.

For me, FFXIV is the best MMO for a single reason : old content never die. Hence, we are not forced to finish the current tier before the next release because we always can return to it later. We even can skip a tier (sometimes, in life, we just can't play some several months, because of exam, familiy/job issues, etc.).

But now that I see that it's not that true, I feel like I HAVE TO play before it's too late. We will start UWU today and I know that even if we succed to kill it, in several months, even if it's hard, I will never be 100% satisfied because we cannot clear it in the authentic difficulty, i.e. as it was on the release.


I don't know if many players are in this case, if Square Enix know about that and if they plan to fix it (I guess Unreal content is one of the way to do that but there is about 20 extremes + savages boss per expensions, there is no chance that we can do them all in their relevant version of difficulty).

I have no idea how hard it is, but I think that they need to rework the MINE (min ilvl no echo) system. The ilvl should be fixed in another way (I don't know exactly how it works, specially with gear with new system of stats, but I heard that even in MINE, our gear is better than it supposed to be on the release) but they also have to rebalance the boss HP/damage, to compensate new potencies, etc. (or belanced the players ones). There must be a way to compute the average stats of a synched character and compare it the the average stats of a character on the relase (like, average HP, average strenght, potency, etc.). For example, if the new stats are in average 20% higher, just divide all our stats by 1.2 and even if it not fill perfectly, the difficulty should be more realistic and the feeling better.

Hope that SE will work on that one day, I really want to cry on A8S, Thordan and so on. Let me believe

[Xlantaa]

That's because they need people to queue for the old content so new players can do it. If you make it harder, a lot of people prefers 30 minutes lockdown than do the duty. That happened with Monastery on alliance roulette. People leaving the party because don't want to deal with a bit harder than normal mechanics. Some people in this game can't handle a wipe for whatever reason. Hell, they even purposely down the item level to get LotA or Syrcus in alliance. The old content is easy so people won't leave because a potential very long run. A lot of people here likes to say how good they are than need harder content everywhere, yet they are the first one on leave if there is a possibility of having wipes. Pathetic. Now they complains is too easy.

Best example is Mentor Roulette. People avoid the extremes and complaint that they are in the mentor roulette, while tell other players to go PF an unsych it, because no body will do the extreme at original level.

Old content is easy because of this. It is a catch up thing.

I would like to be harder, but a lot of people just want a 10 minutes roulette and not deal with any wipe.

[Makiyaa]

Usually, roulettes give access to just synched content (and moslty only normal/hard mode, not extreme/savage (except mentor)). In this case, I have no problem with easy content because people don't go there for challenge but for farm/XP/etc.

The mode I would like to be rebalanced is the MINE (min ilvl) because poeple that choose that option are looking for challenge and I never see MINE in a roulette.

[FoxyAreku]

For me, FFXIV is the best MMO for a single reason : old content never die. Hence, we are not forced to finish the current tier before the next release because we always can return to it later. We even can skip a tier (sometimes, in life, we just can't play some several months, because of exam, familiy/job issues, etc.).

But now that I see that it's not that true,

It really is the biggest myth about this game ever told.

Old content dies just as fast as any other MMO in this game, both from lack of player interest, and to blanket nerfs/job changes ruining the original experience.

Wish there was a way to experience Turn 13 how it was in 2.0 again...

[redheadturk]

Having done dungeon/raids before and after 6.0, such as Tam Tara Hard and Breath of the Creator normal, I can say nothing has fundamentally changed whatsoever, besides certain mechanics in certain instances no longer being one-shotters (while many of them still being so, even in 50 instances like Tam Tara hard). Managed to wipe on the first and last boss of Tam Tara Hard because we messed up the mechanics of both. Healed Breath of the Creator and his health pool was no different than before, perhaps higher, took a few minutes to take him down, and the damage being put out across the whole raid made it quite difficult for me even with another healer to keep everyone up.

You realize potencies have been NERFED for a lot of jobs' abilities, right? Unless we get look at the raw numbers before and after 6.0 for content, than it's hard to say anything's changed. But you're suggesting they've been upping potencies across the board each expansion which is just not even remotely true. I'm sure some things are different now, some content marginally easier, others marginally harder, but it's definitely not easier accross the board, let alone with each subsequent expansion. Except when they go back and deliberately nerf fights like Thordan. Part of the problem as another user mentioned is content not being designed for how jobs play now. Like how threat worked in ARR and how it works now. I don't really know what they could do about that though.

They nerfed Steps of Faith because it was too hard. I am honestly of the opinion that I have no issue with content being easy if it's story content [I say this and I have begun savage this tier]. No one should be blocked out of the story by content they can't clear, and if MSQ content is faceroll to make it so that the players who have a harder time due to disability can clear it, so what? If you want harder content run savage or ex or ultimate.

[Raoabolic]

So I finally ran Toto Rak post nerf. Seeing it turn into a hallway was heartbreaking. :/

[GrizzlyTank]

Always been against the inclusion of unsynced since it effectively removes the amount of content players can participate in.

Why learn a raid when you can just press a button and solo it.

Same issue as WoW with years of content down the drain.

[Shurrikhan]

Back at ARR launch period, we didn't have Direct Hit nor was it as commonplace for Healers to just be full blown DPS (There were those that did throw some GCDs on DPS, but MP management was a a thing, so it was more a surprise to see one doing it rather than the norm for a long time, till we overgeared everything), additionally Tank damage was abysmal. Not only did their Tank stance actively reduce damage dealt, but their actions had bonus Enmity in place of potency.

So we have gone from 4 proper DPS and 2 nerfed damage tanks with 2 healers not spending every GCD on damage to 8 DPS with a whole extra damage stat.

And youre confused why content designed in one era is made easier when the jobs have evolved past that design?

1. Regarding the "power stat", Direct Hit, as cause of faster clears:

The power creep factor there isn't that we lacked Direct Hit. If it were gone, you'd just spend that much more on Determination, Crit, and Speed. Direct Hit quickly falls short of Crit's scaling anyways, and Determination's scaling factor falls barely short of Direct Hit throughout. At certain thresholds, Speed is wholly competitive with Direct Hit.

The only stat issue was Accuracy eating away a portion of our secondary stat budget.
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2. Regarding the idea that Tank Stances' removal and the lack of so much free healing caused the faster clears:

Healers' and tanks' maximal damage output was also higher then, relative to a DPS, than it is now. When tanks' tank stances became free, so too did a fair portion of their damage penalties, but with no way to avoid it by dropping stance. As healers have become increasingly able to meet content's healing requirement via free healing, their relative maximum output has likewise declined slightly.

The power creep we've had since is a simple matter of relative potency per minute, and that shift has not primarily been a result merely things like tank stance (which was quickly dropped), or a far greater portion of healer GCDs being spent on healing (which healers' maximum output has gradually been tuned down for).

Both the changes to tanks and healers are factors in that powercreep, but notably less significant than simple relative potency increases to our abilities.



An early ARR Dragoon, for instance, saw its damage CD on an 80s cooldown, True Thrust at 150 potency, Full Thrust at 330 potency, Dragonfire Dive on a 3-minute CD and at lower potency, Spineshatter Dive on a 90s CD, Jump at a mere two-thirds its potency (dependent on Power Surge's 50% buff, on a 90s CD, to do its current damage), etc., etc. Even after accounting for Heavy Thrust and early Disembowel (10%), a level 50 Dragoon now does about a quarter more potency per minute than it did then.

[Irenia]

It really is the biggest myth about this game ever told.

Old content dies just as fast as any other MMO in this game, both from lack of player interest, and to blanket nerfs/job changes ruining the original experience.

Wish there was a way to experience Turn 13 how it was in 2.0 again...

Eh, it doesn't "die" in the same way as it does in other mmos. Entropy comes for all, but in this game, the statement is describing more the lack of a content treadmill, and how design doesn't purposefully kick content to the curb by funneling all players, new and old, onto current content exclusively... and that even new jobs like sage are built to... say experience a version of T13, to use your example that was never possible in 2.0 for obvious reasons.

That said, it seems like you put much value on the "original" experience. The idea that the original is king and all else are pretenders not worth the time of day is not one I jive with at all. MMOs are unique in that things are ever changing, and that should be embraced. We're getting 6.18 soon,and with that, we say farewell to 6.15 and await the changes that datacenter travel will ripple through the game.

[Makiyaa]

That said, it seems like you put much value on the "original" experience

I admit that I would like to would try the "original" experience, but it's not the point here. I am not that sad that some old skills are removed and I like the fact that new jobs can go into old content (even if I don't want play Gunbreaker in lvl70 content, but it's more about personal preference). The point is the original difficulty rather than original experience.

What people want is that the old content stay hard thought time. Even if the skills or system changed, even if there are news jobs. We just want to say "we did it because we are good and not because this boss became easier".