It's clear SE doesn't care and Samurai will not be reverted in 6.2

[KurenXIV]

Except your entire argument has been "SAM feels more like MNK so it's good now." So I'll echo what others have said, stick to playing MNK and let the rest of us who actually know the class fight to have its identity returned. It's been painfully obvious in your replies to others and vice versa that you are not experienced with SAM; nor know or care about the issues it currently has. It's not arrogant to call out someone's ignorance; I'm sorry you see it as such.

It's funny because there's clearly two groups of people: those who care about keeping job identity even if it means they don't like all jobs and those that are OK with homogenization of jobs since now they can "enjoy" all jobs.

I use enjoy in quotes because ultimately that leads to all jobs being essentially the same with different animations.

While I played since ARR launch, this expansion was the first time I took the time out to actually level all jobs. As I was doing so I'd often make comments like "wow this job feels a LOT like this other job...". Which was met with folks maining those jobs saying how it used to be different (in a good way).

For example: AST is just a better version of WHM. I used to main WHM but now I main AST.

Is this good design? NO. Just fix the aspects of WHM kit that feel bad or don't work well (ie: MAKE IT LIKE AST IS NOW) and make AST unique. PLD and GNB are super similar too, I main PLD and I "enjoyed" GNB because it felt familiar . . . not because it was its own unique thing. Is this good design? Again, no it's not.

The whole purpose of having different jobs should be to make unique enough play experiences that they stand out on their own and appeal to a certain type of player. Otherwise, why even bother having different jobs?

This "easy mode" they want to employee for making new jobs deflates any sense of excitement I have about future jobs. It makes the game feel creatively bankrupt and ultimately won't appear to those who have stuck with the game for so long.

It's extremely frustrating to watch happen and frankly *I don't care* if someone finds SAM entertaining *now* because it's a watered down version of what it was. If you can't find a SINGLE job you enjoy to make your way through the game then I'm sorry but this game isn't for you. If people want the bar of good job design to be "everyone has to enjoy all jobs because REASONS!" then enjoy your boring game but don't be surprised when it becomes like WoW, a soulless husk of its former self.

[xAFROx]

snip

While it's probably more true than I know, I actually find PLD kind of boring personally. I haven't enjoyed it much at all despite it being my first tank that I leveled in SB. But then I did DRK and then WAR and then GNB was released and I loved it, especially since at its introduction the DRK I loved playing was reduced to worse WAR and everyone else said it was now better... I could not for the life of me see what they saw and I liked WAR. WAR is fun when you get to go ham. But like... why was DRK becoming like WAR better for DRK? idk.

Just wanted to say, I like GNB. It's my main tank job, and currently my main job until SAM gets fixed since SAM was reduced to boredom. I find the PLD rotation a little clunky is the main reason why I don't level it first out of the tanks.

But I wholeheartedly agree that jobs should feel and play much differently from each other. Maybe have similarities, but the main brunt of tools should be unique in both use and function.

[Ransu]

snip

I don't really think the different jobs are all that similar honestly despite some recognizable homogenization.

That said, the main reason they keep pushing things the way they are and removing specific debuffs and buffs and other things is because they are trying to ensure every single job is viable and avoid situations like in ARR where groups were outright banning jobs from even being in their groups. Like double BRD was super common in ARR.

[Kira_Yaeger]

Where Dev response? Where feedback response? Where my old SAM? Where is my fun? Where. I want old SAM back and so do 99% of every single SAM I've talked to. This is simply outrageous at this point. Not a single PEEP from the devs.

[Kira_Yaeger]

I don't really think the different jobs are all that similar honestly despite some recognizable homogenization.

That said, the main reason they keep pushing things the way they are and removing specific debuffs and buffs and other things is because they are trying to ensure every single job is viable and avoid situations like in ARR where groups were outright banning jobs from even being in their groups. Like double BRD was super common in ARR.

Every. Single. Job has been viable in every piece of content since SB. This line of thinking from the Dev team is just backwards. People play the classes that they think are fun and they clear all the content with those classes. It's just cringe now.

[Soge01]

Every. Single. Job has been viable in every piece of content since SB. This line of thinking from the Dev team is just backwards. People play the classes that they think are fun and they clear all the content with those classes. It's just cringe now.

Indeed. At this point the jobs are being "fixed" for players who don't even like the jobs and for the devs so they have less work to do. I won't be surprised if all jobs end up becoming like healers one day. Just a cheap and easily recognizable copy and paste of one another. :/

[Ransu]

Every. Single. Job has been viable in every piece of content since SB. This line of thinking from the Dev team is just backwards. People play the classes that they think are fun and they clear all the content with those classes. It's just cringe now.

The point is they don't want a meta. They don't want to go back to what they did in ARR/HW because there was such extreme meta's that despite a job being "viable" it was straight up being ignored and blocked from groups. I agree they could have approached it differently, but this is why the design went into the direction it did.

[Hezhi]

The point is they don't want a meta. They don't want to go back to what they did in ARR/HW because there was such extreme meta's that despite a job being "viable" it was straight up being ignored and blocked from groups. I agree they could have approached it differently, but this is why the design went into the direction it did.

They've already accomplished that. We haven't had a meta like that since they removed the slash/pierce debuffs... I haven't seen people getting excluded from a group for playing the wrong job in like 5 years. That doesn't rationalize their weird crusade on ironing out job differences anymore.

[Stasya]

They've already accomplished that. We haven't had a meta like that since they removed the slash/pierce debuffs... I haven't seen people getting excluded from a group for playing the wrong job in like 5 years. That doesn't rationalize their weird crusade on ironing out job differences anymore.

Not excluding but i have already saw people locking out sam from log parties on my dc. Yes you may argue it's monkaTOS but i care about this type of "content" as at max level with full bis there is literally nothing else to do (you dont need gear for alliance/dungeons and for ultimate you have to find right group first might aswell add that groups would rather search for nin/mnk than sam). 6.2 sam will be a dead class.

[Ransu]

They've already accomplished that. We haven't had a meta like that since they removed the slash/pierce debuffs... I haven't seen people getting excluded from a group for playing the wrong job in like 5 years. That doesn't rationalize their weird crusade on ironing out job differences anymore.

Its not the extreme it used to be, but there are still meta groups and I've been seeing a ton of PF's that lock out samurai's because of its lack of synergy with dancer now.

I'm not saying I agree with the current design approach, because I definitely don't. I think there are better ways to remain casual while appealing to mid and hardcore groups and keeping jobs unique while being viable, but the MMO community will be the MMO community and Yoshi understands it a little too well so we get the design decisions we've been seeing the last few years come to life.

Also, I'm not sure if I'm the minority in this, but I would love to see debuffs like slashing/piercing to come back. I understand the problems it caused, but I really liked them.