Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[IllyaPrisma]

Design philosophy indicates that Square believes the burden of responsibility in Healing is too heavy to add DPS rotation. Healing is simultaneously the most difficult and most boring role to play.

These counterpoints have been stated before, but are worth repeating:

> Imagine if Tanks had 1 DoT/1 Spam GCD and a majority of mitigation CDs

> Square gives Tanks and DPS tools for mitigating damage and healing in addition to their DPS rotations. They have not given the same consideration to Healers.

> Healer damage contribution is required for content, despite the numerous occasions where Square has stated the opposite. Week 1 and week 2 savage clears, and ultimate would not be possible without Healers dealing damage.

> Even in Ultimate, a very large majority of the Healer's time is spent on dealing damage.

> Current Expert roulette dungeons can be run with 1 Warrior and 3 DPS, Wall-to-Wall pulls

> Current Savage content can be cleared without any healers in the party.

[Deceptus]

Design philosophy indicates that Square believes the burden of responsibility in Healing is too heavy to add DPS rotation. Healing is simultaneously the most difficult and most boring role to play.

These counterpoints have been stated before, but are worth repeating:

> Imagine if Tanks had 1 DoT/1 Spam GCD and a majority of mitigation CDs
.

Hey now, they get a single AoE as well. Can't push them too far.

[Liam_Harper]

Design philosophy indicates that Square believes the burden of responsibility in Healing is too heavy to add DPS rotation. Healing is simultaneously the most difficult and most boring role to play.

Important to note this only applies to Savage and Ultimate, as any content below that doesn't really have damage checks that require healer dps. So a dps rotation on healers in Normal mode content would make no difference as you aren't required to use it. There's no added responsibility there.

It's all about trying to get casual players who aren't very good at healer and don't really want to learn, clears in Savage and Ultimate. That's why the role is butchered.

[Rolder50]

Important to note this only applies to Savage and Ultimate, as any content below that doesn't really have damage checks that require healer dps. So a dps rotation on healers in Normal mode content would make no difference as you aren't required to use it. There's no added responsibility there.

It's all about trying to get casual players who aren't very good at healer and don't really want to learn, clears in Savage and Ultimate. That's why the role is butchered.

At the same time, in content below Savage, you can straight up go AFK for a majority of the fight if you're not DPSing. Fun role.

[ForteNightshade]

Important to note this only applies to Savage and Ultimate, as any content below that doesn't really have damage checks that require healer dps. So a dps rotation on healers in Normal mode content would make no difference as you aren't required to use it. There's no added responsibility there.

It's all about trying to get casual players who aren't very good at healer and don't really want to learn, clears in Savage and Ultimate. That's why the role is butchered.

Sadly, I think it goes beyond even that and the devs actively want a role where casual players can essentially get away with very little contribution. Hence the constant mention of healer DPS being optional outside of week 1 prog and Ultimate. They want better players to carry the load. Hell, Yoshida has come right out and admitted that when nobody was queuing for Castrum in Bozja. And later added they want to explore more large scale content like that because it allows better players to "help" less experienced ones.

Their concern seems to be that if they were to give healers even tank rotations, it'd immediately become the expected norm especially at the Savage level. Which it would. The fact they view that as a bad thing speaks volumes.

[Colt47]

Important to note this only applies to Savage and Ultimate, as any content below that doesn't really have damage checks that require healer dps. So a dps rotation on healers in Normal mode content would make no difference as you aren't required to use it. There's no added responsibility there.

It's all about trying to get casual players who aren't very good at healer and don't really want to learn, clears in Savage and Ultimate. That's why the role is butchered.

I don't really want the game to be all about who does the most damage wins the fight and the dev team doesn't want that reality either. Savage is not supposed to be the root purpose of a job, it is an extension of the base game that is designed to be as hard to beat as the game designers are willing to go, since it is very easy to make unbeatable content, but incredibly difficult to make content that is tight on "correctness" in playing a set of 8 jobs without blasting the entire group into oblivion.

[Nizzi]

I don't really want the game to be all about who does the most damage wins the fight and the dev team doesn't want that reality either. Savage is not supposed to be the root purpose of a job, it is an extension of the base game that is designed to be as hard to beat as the game designers are willing to go, since it is very easy to make unbeatable content, but incredibly difficult to make content that is tight on "correctness" in playing a set of 8 jobs without blasting the entire group into oblivion.

Jobs are literally designed and balanced around Savage and Ultimate, what are you talking about?

[HyperiusUltima]

I don't really want the game to be all about who does the most damage wins the fight and the dev team doesn't want that reality either. Savage is not supposed to be the root purpose of a job, it is an extension of the base game that is designed to be as hard to beat as the game designers are willing to go, since it is very easy to make unbeatable content, but incredibly difficult to make content that is tight on "correctness" in playing a set of 8 jobs without blasting the entire group into oblivion.

Yet I think you missed the point that Liam was trying to make: Healers are extremely unengaging in 95% of content and nearly effectively braindead with heals in that unengaging content.

Dungeons - Just heal.
Normal Mode Raids - Just heal.
Alliance Raids - Just heal.
Solo Instances - Spam 1 Button and 1 DoT ad nauseum.

Yeah. You can see how boring the role is after you've done everything on your healing checklist and the Tanks/DPS aren't dying. Savage/Ultimate pushes the jobs further to their maximum because your new shiny tools actually matter in this instance. It's not about who does the most damage, but rather about healer engagement. It's what we've been yelling at them to do since we figured it out in Shadowbringers - and they still haven't listened.

If you're looking at the base game itself, excluding Savage/Ultimate, you have a game where you do not require 20% of your buttons or shiny new tools to clear content. Heck, one healer would be enough and they still wouldn't touch a whole lot of their kit. This is why raiders are focused on improving to take on Savage - because Savage is challenging. So is Ultimate to a greater extent. In these areas, you use the full extent of your kit and it's where you actually see the job's strengths and weaknesses if they weren't already pointed out in Extreme Trials for some reason or another - and this includes our engagement and where it is aligning during points of Downtime if you bother to think about where the damage is when you're healing a Savage fight. Of course, one can say that "SGE just heals by DPSing! That's engagement, right?" No. SGE is not exactly as engaging as it should be - and the other healers are in the same boat. Sure it has Phlegma and an extra damaging GCD, but I'm still pressing the 1 Button a lot when I'm not executing mechanics or don't need to heal, either because I've already done my checklist or my co-healer and I are working in tandem.

At the end of the day, what the charts say is that we hit the 1 button too much even in Savage/Ultimate when there isn't any healing needing to be done. That's why we're going to continue pointing this out until Yoshida and the Dev Team bother to do something about it.

[Saraide]

I don't really want the game to be all about who does the most damage wins the fight and the dev team doesn't want that reality either. Savage is not supposed to be the root purpose of a job, it is an extension of the base game that is designed to be as hard to beat as the game designers are willing to go, since it is very easy to make unbeatable content, but incredibly difficult to make content that is tight on "correctness" in playing a set of 8 jobs without blasting the entire group into oblivion.

Casual content doesnt need balancing at all. We already have massive balancing differences between warrior and the other tanks when it comes to dungeons. Yet no one cares because balance is completely irrelevant for that level of content.

[Liam_Harper]

Sadly, I think it goes beyond even that and the devs actively want a role where casual players can essentially get away with very little contribution. Hence the constant mention of healer DPS being optional outside of week 1 prog and Ultimate. They want better players to carry the load. Hell, Yoshida has come right out and admitted that when nobody was queuing for Castrum in Bozja. And later added they want to explore more large scale content like that because it allows better players to "help" less experienced ones.

Their concern seems to be that if they were to give healers even tank rotations, it'd immediately become the expected norm especially at the Savage level. Which it would. The fact they view that as a bad thing speaks volumes.

Unfortunately very true. I wouldn't even mind helping the less experienced players if they actually wanted help. If someone genuinely wanted to improve I'd happily set aside my free time and run over anything they wanted. If I see someone in a group doing their best and asking questions I'll be patient with any number of mistakes. But Yoshida's attitude that I'm meant to set aside my free time to carry people who don't particularly like me much and don't care about contributing is baffling. Especially when there's no reward and content I enjoy is butchered to accommodate carrying those players more easily. For me, it's a lose-lose deal.

As that type of player likes to say, "they don't pay my sub". They can carry themselves.

I don't really want the game to be all about who does the most damage wins the fight and the dev team doesn't want that reality either.

No one is saying to turn Normal mode content into tight dps checks. They're saying to give healers more to do than 1 button. The only place this would cause potential difficulty is Savage or Ultimate, since all other content doesn't require any healer dps. Thus, healers likely have 1 button dps because of Savage and Ultimate and how the devs want bad players to be able to clear it.

I'm sorry, but if a player couldn't handle more than 1 button to deal damage as a healer and didn't want to learn, they have no place in Savage or Ultimate. It's meant to be designed for the players who want a challenge. This developer mentality of butchering an entire role just to try and hand hardcore content over to the entire playerbase is crazy.