Just wanna say, I really enjoy healing in this game.

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

I actually liked healing before Endwalker and I was very happy with their state for a lot of years (even shadowbringer yes).

But as soon as Endwalker released, it showed me that, as a healer, I am now useless in most of the content of this game, as long as the players are not completely bad.

While I don't like being here only to babysit bad players to have fun while they sleep through avoidable damage, I'm glad for the people who are happy with the current state of healers if playing babysitters is what they want.

Because that's what the healer role is now: a babysitter role mixed with a boring, underrated dps role using their heal only when someone makes a mistake and having nothing to do while no heals are needed.

As for me, I will no longer heal until healers become healers again which mean when they will be really mandatory to clear content again.

[KDSilver]

I like healing.
I dislike healer current design.

[Amenara]

I have played many MMOs and honestly, complaints over healers always seems to be the primary focus. A small but vocal minority always screeches about the other healers having something they don't and just how much more damage they want to do. They always say just how broken healers are in -this- MMO but when you ask them to cite an MMO what had healers they liked, they can't. They just can't. There are no other healers they like. They are never satisfied. Ever.

I really enjoyed Resto Shaman in WoW back in the TBC/Wrath eras.

[Renathras]

I actually liked healing before Endwalker and I was very happy with their state for a lot of years (even shadowbringer yes).

I'm kind of curious, how is it worse in EW than ShB? I've felt healing in both to be largely the same. The only thing that has changed is encounter design, and only mildly at that.

WHM's only change was the addition of Lilibell and (in 6.1) bumping up the refresh rate of Lilies to 20 sec instead of 30 sec. Misery was DPS neutral in ShB and was made DPS neutral again in 6.1, so that's not really a change. (If anything, NOT doing this in 6.0 was an oversight due to a new tier of Glare and Misery should have just upgraded in potency with that same trait)

SCH's change is that Eos seems more responsive, there is still ghosting but a bit less, Fey Blessing had the Faerie Gauge cost removed, we gained Expedience (which was promptly nerfed for being too good), and...did anything else change?

AST lost Noct sect and got a pretty big rework, so I'll give you that if you're an AST main. It still plays vaguely like old Diurnal, but at the same time, not exactly. And the seals change still kind of boggles my mind. Like I get it's to reduce punishment for RNG not working with you, but you also lost all the nice tools to mitigate that RNG somewhat like using Minor Arcana to burn cards with the wrong seals or things like Sleeve Draw.

SGE was added, so can't really say much to that (since it's nothing like old Noct, so doesn't fill into that void as its spiritual successor)

So as far as I can tell, WHM didn't really change at all, SCH got slightly more responsive and a useful Zommies spell, and AST had to do the same babysitting before as now.

Not trying to harp on you, genuine question. I'm just not sure what you're suggesting changed, unless you mean encounters got easier (which isn't strictly a healer design problem), maybe?

EDIT:

I really enjoyed Resto Shaman in WoW back in the TBC/Wrath eras.

I've always loved Resto Druid. Though I don't think Denji is saying EVERY LAST PERSON didn't like it - not every healer in FFXIV hates FFXIV healing, either. I think he was more saying that the game's community was still complaining about it even then.

[Renathras]

I do not need your charity, thank you.

Do you not know what the phrase "I can be charitable and assume" means? It isn't me saying you're a poor little something or other that needs my pity. If that's what you got out of it, you're inventing things to be mad about.

It means "giving you the benefit of the doubt", which is something I extend to most all Human beings because, as it so happens, I'm not a jerk.

It wasn't meant to be a slight. You really shouldn't run with that as a base assumption - that people are trying to slight you.

On the contrary, my comment is a direct quote, and stating that "no healers anywhere are ever satisfied" IS an exaggeration.

It is, but so is "the only "screeching" that I see is from ill-informed people who are claiming that no one is ever satisfied anywhere", as not only is that clearly NOT the only opposition you see to your position, even in this very thread, but it's only ONE person that has done it, and not "screeching".

But I won't belabor the point because I doubt you're going to see the problem in your statement anyway.

On the contrary, you are in error, and should be more careful in your language towards me as my post does not, nor do my posts ever call someone 'stupid OR ignorant or badz" NOR do they ever imply as such.

"is from ill-informed people"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ill-informed people are, by definition, ignorant. The rest I included based on our other conversations in some of these other threads, but was ALSO a more general statement as you aren't the only offender. The position here seems to be "if you think healers are fine today, you're <insert one or more of the things I mentioned>", which is unhealthy for this forum and the game.

.

I'm literally NOT trying to slight you or throw shade. I'm trying to have a productive conversation.

[IDontPetLalas]

Do you not know what the phrase "I can be charitable and assume" means? It isn't me saying you're a poor little something or other that needs my pity. If that's what you got out of it, you're inventing things to be mad about.

It means "giving you the benefit of the doubt", which is something I extend to most all Human beings because, as it so happens, I'm not a jerk.

It wasn't meant to be a slight. You really shouldn't run with that as a base assumption - that people are trying to slight you.



It is, but so is "the only "screeching" that I see is from ill-informed people who are claiming that no one is ever satisfied anywhere", as not only is that clearly NOT the only opposition you see to your position, even in this very thread, but it's only ONE person that has done it, and not "screeching".

But I won't belabor the point because I doubt you're going to see the problem in your statement anyway.



"is from ill-informed people"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ill-informed people are, by definition, ignorant. The rest I included based on our other conversations in some of these other threads, but was ALSO a more general statement as you aren't the only offender. The position here seems to be "if you think healers are fine today, you're <insert one or more of the things I mentioned>", which is unhealthy for this forum and the game.

.

I'm literally NOT trying to slight you or throw shade. I'm trying to have a productive conversation.

Thank you, this is far more civil. "ill-informed' can be used in several ways, it not a slight on anyone, as it frequently means that a statement is not based upon facts. As in ' no healers are ever satisfied everywhere", after which several people fairly quickly provided several example of games in which at least some people were happy as healers and weren't always complaining. You (general you) may discount those as facts, of course it's easy enough to provide links to get more evidence- but that's the gist of it.

Just to point out that earlier "charitable and assume " comment was directly next to, as you say, as statement with some rather volatile words which I in no way want to be associated with, and furthermore I don't see other people using. I have no problem whatsoever debating issues, I can disagree with people and stay civil. I do have issues with people using inflammatory language in forums because I've seen in get out of hand elsewhere very quickly.

By the way, edited, since you are quoting me out of context, and I don't even know what "position" you are referencing, nor why you would even want to derail that with any other threads, my reply had nothing whatsoever to do with you, it was a reply to someone else completely. Unlike you, I am not proselytizing for pages about some "position".

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Misery was DPS neutral in ShB and was made DPS neutral again in 6.1, so that's not really a change. (If anything, NOT doing this in 6.0 was an oversight due to a new tier of Glare and Misery should have just upgraded in potency with that same trait)

Just to correct you abit: the old potency was a 900p with 25% falloff. You still need 4 GCDs to fire a single misery, which was less than what 4 Glares (300p each) could achieve in single target situations.

Misery has never been a DPS neutral until 6.1 since its inception. Took them slightly over a single expansion to finally address ‘using job gimmick is a loss’-oversight.

EDIT: by adjusting said oversight, they've also shown to made a new one. See lv74-81 Misery potency vs Glares. It's a straight up gain. Knowing this it feels VERY WEIRD to play WHM in that lv range.

[Silverbane]

I can disagree with people and stay civil.

Maybe you can, but you don't:

your self- delusional ranting

Hardly civil.

nor do my posts ever call someone 'stupid OR ignorant or badz" NOR do they ever imply as such.

The only explanation I see for this statement of yours is that you're either delusional, forgetful, or dishonest. Care to say which?

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

I'm kind of curious, how is it worse in EW than ShB? I've felt healing in both to be largely the same. The only thing that has changed is encounter design, and only mildly at that.

That's written in my post.

I don't know why you're coming up with jobs since I've only talked about the role. It's not because it cannot be fix by modifying healers' skills or job design that it is not a healer issue.

It's not related to a job and their "gameplay" but to the whole role.

Healers aren't healers anymore, before Endwalker the role has been about "keeping the party alive" and now it is only "making up for others' mistakes" because if there is no mistake the party will stay alive even if you don't heal.

If for you, having almost nothing to heal and being useless even when the content is new isn't an issue as a healer it's fine too, but I think my post was clear enough.

[NobleWinter]

I think the biggest change from ShB to Endwalker for me was the insane amount of self healing all the tanks received. The healer role stayed the same relatively but our priority in most content is to keep the tank alive and that became almost completely obsolete with the Warrior changes in particular. That was really disappointing to me as a healer main since our kits don't have a DPS focus. We have very few options for dealing damage and a ton of ways to heal. There is very little to heal and tanks can do most of it by themselves unless it's a Dark Knight. Having two healers in roulette content feels like a slap in the face most of the time. Why is my healing kit so huge if my cohealer can handle everything by themselves. Just what am I supposed to enjoy about this role exactly? I'm not healing and DPS is boring. I would like to feel useful and critical to success in PvE. That's what brought me joy as a Scholar Main since ARR. The game has steadily drained that source of satisfaction with each expansion and now it's so noticeable I can't help but feel jaded and bored with the roll.