Just wanna say, I really enjoy healing in this game.

[Liam_Harper]

Here we go again...

So far we've got "Healing is engaging in Ultimate", "Healing is fun if you stop trying to play well" and "WHM is the simple healer, buttons are bad". The usual.

I'm noping out of this one, we've been here a hundred times.

[Renathras]

Here we go again...

So far we've got "Healing is engaging in Ultimate", "Healing is fun if you stop trying to play well" and "WHM is the simple healer, buttons are bad". The usual.

I'm noping out of this one, we've been here a hundred times.

You realize people can just have a different opinion than you and be valid and justified in it, right? Also, do you have any idea what caricature and straw man fallacies are?

There's so much negativity on this board, it's nice to see that people DO enjoy healing.

EDIT:

about only thing I miss are, "spamable" heals. Though, I know I know, everyone has self-heal now. It'd still be cool to help the group out with healing.

Yeah, hard agree on this. I liked the old PvP Cure 1 where it had no CD or MP cost and could be spammed, though didn't heal THAT much. I like being able to top people off or offer support healing, and you can't do that in PvP anymore which has me kind of hate healing in PvP because you aren't really a healer at all, you're a DPS with a could of support CDs, and that's boring and annoying. SGE is worse, though. I tried SGE first with the new healing and was actually livid. It has NO heals. Yes, it has Kardia but literally nothing else. If your team kills the local enemy, you can't heal anyone or anything.

Though what I think I hate the most is that PvP healers are forced into MELEE. I have no idea who thought this was a good idea, but all the healers do it, I believe (haven't played AST much, but the other three have it). I hate that. It's bad enough that damage spells always feel so short range, but then you have to get into MELEE with healer health pools (which are the lowest of all the Jobs in PvP, SGE is the lowest there is). At least with SGE, you can in theory get in and out with Icarus, but because the rampant CC, that only happens when the enemy team is utterly incompetent. With SCH/WHM, I've just gotten to where I play and ignore those buttons existing entirely. The only time I use Seraph Strike is to try a last ditch suicide attempt to keep the enemy off a node in Seal Rock a bit longer (and yes, it's pretty much ALWAYS a suicide mission) or when there's a lone enemy that one of our tanks pulled as they tried to escape with their party that I can safely hit while staying behind friendly front lines.

Healers just don't have the staying power to effectively engage in melee without dying, and SGE is the only one with a gap opener escape tool, albeit dependent on a nearby friendly player to jump to and not being bound - which is a tall order considering how jank Purify and Guard are these days.

Don't get me wrong, I love how SCH plays as a buff/debuffer a lot, and I like WHM okay. I even like the idea behind SGE's ultimate which can be useful for some stuff. But I really don't like that EVERY healer in PvP is a melee warrior for some gods unknown reason without having a melee kit or melee levels of defense, and I hate not having even a token spamable heal.

In my opinion, despite enjoying it, I think that it is extremely important to have a DIVERSE set of play styles to get diverse people with diverse tastes. We don't need a healing role that is mostly DPS, that's what the DPS role is for.

This is my position as well. I feel that with four different - or at least two if we split them into barrier and pure - healer Jobs, we could have a bit more diversity. I hate DoTs and every healer has one. I know some people want more complex rotations, with some preferring a more rigid 1-2-3, others more juggling procs and buffs, and still others loving DoTs to death. Still others love the current design where they can focus their mental energy on healing and fight mechanics and just have a simple spam button to hit when nothing else demands their attention. With four healers, it seems like we could accommodate all those preferences and let people pick they one they like best, thus letting everyone be happy and gravitate to the playstyle/complexity level they enjoy.

[IDontPetLalas]

[QUOTE=Renathras;5989882]

EDIT:

Though what I think I hate the most is that PvP healers are forced into MELEE. I have no idea who thought this was a good idea, but all the healers do it, I believe (haven't played AST much, but the other three have it). I hate that. It's bad enough that damage spells always feel so short range, but then you have to get into MELEE with healer health pools (which are the lowest of all the Jobs in PvP, SGE is the lowest there is). CH/WHM, I've just gotten to where I play and ignore those buttons existing entirely. The only time I use Seraph Strike is to try a last ditch suicide attempt to keep the enemy off a node in Seal Rock a bit longer (and yes, it's pretty much ALWAYS a suicide mission)
Healers just don't have the staying power to effectively engage in melee without dying, and SGE is the only one with a gap opener escape tool, albeit dependent on a nearby friendly player to jump to and not being bound -
Don't get me wrong, I love how SCH plays as a buff/debuffer a lot, and I like WHM okay. I even like the idea behind SGE's ultimate which can be useful for some stuff. But I really don't like that EVERY healer in PvP is a melee warrior for some gods unknown reason without having a melee kit or melee levels of defense, and I hate not having even a token spamable heal.
snip (length)
If you ignore the skills that put you in melee range in PVP because that makes you uncomfortable, they you will potentially miss out on many opportunities to help your team - you are missing out on major support heals. That being said, the way to play is going to vary depending upon whether you're in CC or FL and these changes were clearly made with CC in mind, we know that, and some change will be forthcoming for FL.
It's a question of risk vs reward, if your Seraph Strike is well aimed and well timed you're going to be of a lot of help in CC - it is not a "suicide mission there" but a judgement call , as your reference was FL , (entirely up to you) your utility will likely be more into CC and making the best use of your LB. In FL, one of your priorities is usually to CC those jobs that are going to blast you down such as SMN and BLMs, or if they aren't there- anyone with some very effective group debuffs.

Regarding healers being forced into melee? I prefer not to play my SGE, but AST isn't forced into melee, SCH is in order to use mummification, which may or may not seem fair (I would say yes) and SGE needs to get into melee for phlegma- so someone who mains SGE in PVP (I don't ) may know how painful that is or isn"t.

So this view that every healer is a melee warrior in PVP? No, we have a lot of flexibility in where and how we play , you need to have situational awareness, use your sprint , stay with your group, and sometimes, select the best healing job according to your party. That's why the new PVP changes are now fun, because each healing job has interesting and different options.

[Renathras]

...

I've always hated "Arena" PvP (unless it's a FPS, and then it's iffy), so I do FL's exclusively. If the Devs want me to use the tools, don't make them abjectly stupid. In a war, you don't strap a nuke to your doctor and tell him to charge at the enemy. That's just asinine. Though I DO use Seraph in one other place than objectives, which is if an enemy has been cut off from their team or yanked into our team by our tanks or charged into our team (with a Seraph Strike, Ifrit charge, etc) stupidly. That's a good time to smack into them and then plaster them with Misery, Nature's polymorph, and let my team finish them as I back off so I don't get plastered by the enemy front line myself.

Mumification is the worst though, since there's not even a charge. Meaning you have to waddle your happy butt into melee in the first place. XD

And none of this gets around the fact we have no spamable heal. We aren't really even healers in PvP, we're support. SGE is barely even that due to how its healing works (or, rather, doesn't work as healing). SGE is basically a DPS with benefits, more like PvP Ranged DPSers are.

I can see why a lot of people that are unhappy with PvE healers and want them to be support DPSers would like the PvP kits more, though, since it's kind of what they want in PvE anyway. I'm just the opposite.

EDIT:

So there's 4 rather verbose examples for you right off the bat. Could you expand on where your view came from? It honestly feels like an opinion you've made purely from reading these boards and not much else, certainly not actually speaking to healing stalwarts elsewhere.

Not the other guy, but I think they likely mean "in general" not "you in specific/every last person". As I noted, there were plenty of complaints in WoW about healers. Often it was about balance, but also their kits. Healadins were routinely complained about for having no AOE healing (before Cata, other than the Flash of Light/Beacon glyph that could be used for VERY light party healing and Judgement of Light, of course) and having a boring rotation that consisted of refreshing Judgement and chaincasting Holy Light on one tank while having Beacon on the other. That was in Wrath. Before Wrath (in BC) it was chain casting Holy Light (sometimes with downranking for mana preservation) while refreshing either Seal of Light or Judgement of Light (originally 30 sec buffs, later changed to 2 mins, LATER changed to 30 min) and Judging Light or Wisdom once every...30 seconds, I guess?

In Vanilla, the only healers that actually healed in raids were Holy Priests. Disc was for leveling, not playing, Druids were for using...oh gosh, I can't remember the name of it, but the mana refresh ability they had? They were for using that on CD on the Holy Priests. And Paladins/Shaman (faction locked in Vanilla) were exclusively for buffing - they didn't waste mana on heals and tried to stay out of combat entirely to maximize mana regeneration. Vanilla was...wild.

As I started my MMO healing career as a Healadin, I've never had issue with FFXIV's healers being "boring".

But I actually enjoyed that. I liked Druid healing as rolling HoTs across the party, and dabbled a bit in Holy Priest as well. I even did PvP, though only Battlegrounds.

The complaints from the community, though? Oh god, do you really not remember? OF THE TOP OF MY HEAD:

- Holy Paladins were TOO POWERFUL in PvP (though this was largely because of Death Knights and the synergy with Holy Paladins, but the Healadins were the ones eventually nerfed)

- Holy Paladins (all Paladins, actually) were too boring (Vanilla/BC/Wrath)

- Holy Paladins stay out of combat and cast buffs and don't even heal (Vanilla - again, all healers that weren't Holy Priests felt this in some way)

- Holy Paladins have no AOE heals.

- Holy Priests are too weak.

- Holy Priests have no niche.

- Lightwell (Holy Priest) sucks (despite the ability always being powerful and the Devs constantly buffing it to get more people to use it, because it had to be interacted with manually, players just wouldn't do it)

- Holy Priest is too powerful. (Yes, this contradicts the above point)

- Holy Priest ability X (there were many) is too strong/weak/niche/useless. (I mentioned Lightwell, but it was hardly the only offender)

I could go on for a while, but the long and short of it is, the WoW community AS A WHOLE complained quite a lot about WoW healers, and did so until I stopped playing in Mysts, which was arguably the point at which they were most balanced and complaints were the least.

.

So I don't think the other person was saying YOU are doing this PERSONALLY, but that in a general sense, there is a lot of truth that MMO healers in a given MMO, as a community, can and do often complain no matter what. As I noted above, this doesn't mean all complaints are invalid, but it does mean that complaints existing isn't as meaningful as it might otherwise seem.