Just remove healers.

[fulminating]

. Our contribution to DPS is minuscule for this purpose.

Healers contribution to damage is about the same as a tank, or roughly 2/3 of a dps.

[Nadda]

Okay, you're gonna have to throw me some rope here.
Otherwise, the exchange between others will get very exhausting having to repeat myself. Especially with a restrictive word limit.
I'm talking under the pretense that people already understand Healers contribute to DPS.
So that wasn't the point.

Yes, the breakdown of any group is we make up 2/3 of the DPS this core tenant is fundamental to how groups work, moving forward from this idea, however, there's obviously quite a large disparity between what my top DPS is as a White Mage I can provide to a Samurai. (To preface again equal contribution of DPS is essential for everyone)

The concept being as was described by Silverbane idea keeping DPS players up is more impactful to the groups success because they do more damage than you. That in effect it is our healing sometimes is the best contribution toward DPS efforts that is part of what our role provides.

If this is confusing please let me know where you have gotten lost so we may better understand each other.

[Rilifane]

Okay, you're gonna have to throw me some rope here.
Otherwise, the exchange between others will get very exhausting having to repeat myself. Especially with a restrictive word limit.
I'm talking under the pretense that people already understand Healers contribute to DPS.
So that wasn't the point.

Yes, the breakdown of any group is we make up 2/3 of the DPS this core tenant is fundamental to how groups work, moving forward from this idea, however, there's obviously quite a large disparity between what my top DPS is as a White Mage I can provide to a Samurai. (To preface again equal contribution of DPS is essential for everyone)

The concept being as was described by Silverbane idea keeping DPS players up is more impactful to the groups success because they do more damage than you. That in effect it is our healing sometimes is the best contribution toward DPS efforts that is part of what our role provides.

If this is confusing please let me know where you have gotten lost so we may better understand each other.

You completely ignore that you do both at the same time in almost every content at almost every time.
It is generally not "I can either Glare and let the dps die OR heal the dps and yaaaaayyyyy I contributed more with my heals <3". It is "I Glare while healing that dps" - which results in all healers easily contributing as much as a tank and roughly 2/3 of a dps. It has already been factored in that healing someone is preferable for group performance than letting them die for a dps GCD.

You do both at the same in almost every situation. The better you are at playing healer the easier this is to understand and execute.
A healer that still lacks practice will frequently chose to drop dps even if they could have fulfilled their primary role without it. There is nothing confusing about stating the obvious, nobody here every argued for refusing to heal at all costs because "muh Glare" or said that it's preferable to use Glare and let a dps die.
You and Silverbane simply ignore something very fundamental: healers heal and dps at the same time - their toolkits were designed for it. Which is why their active dps contribution is far from "miniscule". Fulfilling their primary role while dpsing is factored in with the abundant oGCD/ dps neutral heals they have.

[Nadda]

You completely ignore that you do both at the same time in almost every content at almost every time.
It is generally not "I can either Glare and let the dps die OR heal the dps and yaaaaayyyyy I contributed more with my heals <3". It is "I Glare while healing that dps" - which results in all healers easily contributing as much as a tank and roughly 2/3 of a dps. It has already been factored in that healing someone is preferable for group performance than letting them die for a dps GCD.

You do both at the same in almost every situation. The better you are at playing healer the easier this is to understand and execute.
A healer that still lacks practice will frequently chose to drop dps even if they could have fulfilled their primary role without it. There is nothing confusing about stating the obvious, nobody here every argued for refusing to heal at all costs because "muh Glare" or said that it's preferable to use Glare and let a dps die.
You and Silverbane simply ignore something very fundamental: healers heal and dps at the same time - their toolkits were designed for it. Which is why their active dps contribution is far from "miniscule". Fulfilling their primary role while dpsing is factored in with the abundant oGCD/ dps neutral heals they have.

I'm not ignoring this. How is it I can highlight the fact that Healers need to contribute DPS same as healing and you reach this conclusion is beyond me.
I've spoken in normal English and prefaced that is not what I meant. IN THAT VERY POST!

It is quite and supremely obvious you continue to dps while dishing out your healing. Like where's the cognitive dissonance here.

It's like you people take a sliver of what I say and just ignore the rest of it. WHETHER you want to consider it minuscule or not I could care less this is semantics!

The whole thread is centered around "Removing Healers" right? I'm trying to explain what we contribute.

Do you HONESTLY Think that any self respecting healer is going to either completely dedicate themselves to either just completely DPSing or completely Healing??? WHERE AND WHEN Did I give you that idea.

It's preposterous. I suggested no such thing. Like it literally takes five minutes or less to read what I wrote. Why would you spin it in your head such a ridiculous notion?

I've seriously had it with this level of misrepresentation.

[IDontPetLalas]

I'm not ignoring this. How is it I can highlight the fact that Healers need to contribute DPS same as healing and you reach this conclusion is beyond me.
I've spoken in normal English and prefaced that is not what I meant. IN THAT VERY POST!

It is quite and supremely obvious you continue to dps while dishing out your healing. Like where's the cognitive dissonance here.

It's like you people take a sliver of what I say and just ignore the rest of it. WHETHER you want to consider it minuscule or not I could care less this is semantics!

The whole thread is centered around "Removing Healers" right? I'm trying to explain what we contribute.

Do you HONESTLY Think that any self respecting healer is going to either completely dedicate themselves to either just completely DPSing or completely Healing??? WHERE AND WHEN Did I give you that idea.

It's preposterous. I suggested no such thing. Like it literally takes five minutes or less to read what I wrote. Why would you spin it in your head such a ridiculous notion?

I've seriously had it with this level of misrepresentation.

here is just one preposterous statement that you made

People I believe who are DPS role orientated who play Healer on occasion I believe are more concerned about DPS parsing and rotations, but this play style doesn't suit a healer. The reason we have 100% access to all of our buttons is precisely how to use them tactically and most efficiently. Our contribution to DPS is minuscule for this purpose. The idea is to act selflessly that's the mindset of every person who picks up healing as a main job role. Is to help. So if the fight does less outgoing damage we can push these scenarios to greater limits.

first of all, you have no way at all of knowing whether someone who mains a dps and who plays a healer as an alt is more concerned about their dps than healing. you just made a judgement there.

you made another judgement on how our skills being used since that requires a certain degree of decision making- ok, fine- that like means because sometimes more healing may be required, otherwise dps is fine. saying that our dps is 'miniscule'? uh, no. thanks, I don't want to have to whale away for a solid 15 minutes to kill a single mob for a quest, for example. more like 'lower than a DPS- closer to a tank".

but then we get to the real winner here, the idea that healers are acting selflessly--- we are not ministering angels, each job should be there to work as a team, and think of the other members of the group- and each job should be fun in its own way.

[Nadda]

first of all, you have no way at all of knowing whether someone who mains a dps and who plays a healer as an alt is more concerned about their dps than healing. you just made a judgement there.

you made another judgement on how our skills being used since that requires a certain degree of decision making- ok, fine- that like means because sometimes more healing may be required, otherwise dps is fine. saying that our dps is 'miniscule'? uh, no. thanks, I don't want to have to whale away for a solid 15 minutes to kill a single mob for a quest, for example. more like 'lower than a DPS- closer to a tank".

but then we get to the real winner here, the idea that healers are acting selflessly--- we are not ministering angels, each job should be there to work as a team, and think of the other members of the group- and each job should be fun in its own way.

You're not even the same person but very well...
Apologies are in order. I'm sorry for using the word 'minuscule' it was a poor choice of words. I'd also like to apologize for my baseless presumptions about DPS players.

Had I known it was something people would latch onto to become the bane of my existence I'd have considered a different choice of words. For sake of moving the conversation forward in this endeavor, I'll be sure to use your approved vernacular of 'Healers do less damage than DPS, however nonetheless their DPS contributions are still meaningful and are more in line with DPS margins with Tanks' seems to take longer to say it that way but I will endeavor to accommodate the masses sensitivities in the future.

Seeing how you've made plain you are a supporter of all members of the team offering their own equal contributions and are averse to harsh and baseless judgments, perhaps you can be of use in championing my cause.

This thread is called 'Just Remove Healers' it is saying that my role as in the one I play... being a Healer more precisely, that there are those in the support/argument/suggestion that my Role (Healer), my personal contribution to the Team is worth less than that of Tanks and DPS (one could even say 'minuscule') and by transitive properties that my favorite role (healer)... Should face the ultimate judgment and be 'Removed' from the game.

Now I know you may not be keen on helping me... but you've just made it very clear. No, Very plain to see that, you would surely be against such notions. Could you please draft something up in that regard? Since you felt compelled to intervene in my case, this should be short work for you... please I'm begging you! For all the healers here and at home, please?

[ASkellington]

This thread is called 'Just Remove Healers' it is saying that my role as in the one I play... being a Healer more precisely, that there are those in the support/argument/suggestion that my Role (Healer), my personal contribution to the Team is worth less than that of Tanks and DPS (one could even say 'minuscule') and by transitive properties that my favorite role (healer)... Should face the ultimate judgment and be 'Removed' from the game.

Now I know you may not be keen on helping me... but you've just made it very clear. No, Very plain to see that, you would surely be against such notions. Could you please draft something up in that regard? Since you felt compelled to intervene in my case, this should be short work for you... please I'm begging you! For all the healers here and at home, please?

The point of this post is less that the OP wants healers to be removed and more that if the devs are not going to put effort into the job and making it fun, meaningful and actually wanted/needed in content like they say healers should be (EX, Savage, Ultimate at least) remove it from the game.

And yeah I share that sentiment.

All classes in this game deserve the same treatment of BLM/RDM where they have core identities that work, are fun to play for people who like those playstyles and and a sound foundation that is built upon over the course of several expansions.

They have not done this at all with the healer role.

People who liked SCH/AST in SB (much like people who like SMN previous to EW) had their entire job overhauled in ways they did not ask for nor wanted and were pretty much told to get used to it, you aren't getting it back completely alienating the previous MAINS of those jobs.

It took them until 5.3 to address AST's mana problems. It took them until 6.1 to make Affalus Misery a dps neutral ability.

It looks completely poor on the dev's part that issues healers have are not addressed as quickly, are swept under the rug, or not even understood.

Bottom line is, no we in fact do not want healers to be removed from the game. We love the role, its why we chose it.

However, what we want is for the devs to treat the role as if it actually MEANS something to them and not something to push new players through content. And if they aren't going to do that, then what the hells is the point in having it as a role in the game if it isn't going to be fun for the very people THEY DECIDED TO ABANDON IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[IDontPetLalas]

You're not even the same person but very well..
Apologies are in order. I'm sorry for using the word 'minuscule' it was a poor choice of words. I'd also like to apologize for my baseless presumptions about DPS players.

Had I known it was something people would latch onto to become the bane of my existence I'd have considered a different choice of words. For sake of moving the conversation forward in this endeavor, I'll be sure to use your approved vernacular of 'Healers do less damage than DPS, however nonetheless their DPS contributions are still meaningful and are more in line with DPS margins with Tanks' seems to take longer to say it that way but I will endeavor to accommodate the masses sensitivities in the future.

Seeing how you've made plain you are a supporter of all members of the team offering their own equal contributions and are averse to harsh and baseless judgments, perhaps you can be of use in championing my cause.

This thread is called 'Just Remove Healers' it is saying that my role as in the one I play... being a Healer more precisely, that there are those in the support/argument/suggestion that my Role (Healer), my personal contribution to the Team is worth less than that of Tanks and DPS (one could even say 'minuscule') and by transitive properties that my favorite role (healer)... Should face the ultimate judgment and be 'Removed' from the game.

Now I know you may not be keen on helping me... but you've just made it very clear. No, Very plain to see that, you would surely be against such notions. Could you please draft something up in that regard? Since you felt compelled to intervene in my case, this should be short work for you... please I'm begging you! For all the healers here and at home, please?

you seem to be quite selective in your awareness that this is a community forum, so that means that anything that you post here, or for that matter any of us- is considered fair game for comments. if that feedback becomes the 'bane of your existence' (insert dramatic sigh for effect0 maybe it's time to, as the saying goes - touch some grass?

my reply had nothing whatsoever to do with you, my post was aimed towards your argument, i do hope that you see the distinction. I did not 'intervene', I responded 9again, you seem very confused, it's a community forum0 and i have no idea why i should feel obliged in any way to 'help' you. Why? i provide feedback in other threads regarding healers, as well, go read them, just like anyone else.

[D6Damager]

Healers contribution to damage is about the same as a tank, or roughly 2/3 of a dps.

This is not true. Even the best healer dmg parses (SGE) are completely behind the lowest dmg tank (PLD). Healer damage is not even close to tank damage. And AST is the worst dmg in the game right now by a good margin. The logs are there for anyone to see.

[Nizzi]

This is not true. Even the best healer dmg parses (SGE) are completely behind the lowest dmg tank (PLD). Healer damage is not even close to tank damage. And AST is the worst dmg in the game right now by a good margin. The logs are there for anyone to see.

They are close though? Saying "Healer damage is not even close to tank damage" isn't true. Regardless, what is your point? Healers were doing more damage than tanks in ShB, so are you just being pedantic or do you have something to actually say?