i'm sick and tired of the excuse for not having unique or varied jobs

[pikalovr]

i'm sick and tired of the whole, oh no, we make classes more unique and varied and all of a sudden we have meta picks. as long as all jobs can still clear all content literally almost NO ONE CARES. the only ones who would even remotely care would already be trying to block out jobs or ilvl lock reclears don't kid yourself. so what if NIN gives himself a boost in DPS compared to SAM. if SAM can still clear the fight with only a little more effort, guess what? 90% of parties will still let the SAM in cause guess what? believe it or not, not EVERY savage, EX, or ultimate group is super elitist you must play pinpoint optimally or we kick you

for the love of god allow jobs to be unique/varied again not just having to meet an artificial quota of well every job has to reach about the same DPS in about the same effort. oh and we can't have jobs being to difficult either or people will just ignore the job

the skill floor for almost all jobs is super low but sadly the skill ceiling for alot of jobs are also surprise surprise super low cause they have to not be difficult to be able to match the average of their peers and be available to everyone

there's multiple jobs in each role for a reason let's look at tanks for example you want a support tank? PLD you want fast combos and lots of oGCD management? GNB and DRK you wanna unga bunga and solo heal a dungeon? WAR

WAR is the easiest tank of the four purely cause of how beginner friendly he is and how easy it is to recover from mistakes on him. meanwhile on the opposite end of the spectrum we have GNB where drifting mid burst window at all screws you over

this is a perfect example of each role having varying degrees of difficulty. jobs can be unique and don't have to cater to everyone and their grandma.

if all jobs can still clear all content at the end of the day thats all that matters regardless of "meta" picks or more job variance/uniqueness

[drtasteyummy]

reading this really gives you an aneurysm

[anhaato]

I'll extend that to saying who cares if a certain combination of jobs works really well together? There's a strange obsession among the players with the idea that every job and every combination of jobs should be equally optimal. Maybe it feels like shit if a certain combination of jobs dominates the top of the speed clear charts, but at the end of the day who cares? If each job is unique, fun, and viable, it shouldn't matter so long as you get to enjoy a playstyle that perfectly fits what you like playing. Unfortunately job identity has been largely replaced with role identity. Healers feel the pain from this most of all.

[Kolsykol]

The Jobs ARE varied to play, I rly dunno what game people are playing who think they play the same.
What they do however which I wish they strayed away from is follow a similar loop which ties into the obsession with burst windows.
And utility is basically gone ( sadge NIN ).

I kinda do wish we could be unshackled from the burst window chains, I'd rather have more expansive utility toolkits.

[Larirawiel]

if all jobs can still clear all content at the end of the day thats all that matters regardless of "meta" picks or more job variance/uniqueness

Sorry, but it is not true. The magic word is 'meta'. If the content is easier with a specific job/race then the players will avoid other jobs/races, which do not fit the meta. It happens literary in every MMORPG, especially in WoW. Because there are bigger differences between the races and classes.

SQEX has to solve two contradictory demands: equality in every content and unique class identity. You will never get both. Obviously SQEX decided to sacrifice the job identity to get more equality. Other companies made the opposite decision, like Blizzard with WoW Classic/Vanilla. In this game you have very unique classes but their performance differences are huge. The dps of a fury warrior are double as high as of a retribution paladin. And the raids were full with fury warriors. As a retribution paladin you had no luck.


Cheers

[Enkidoh]

The main reason why classes and Jobs have become somewhat homogenized over the years is actually due to a conscious determination by Yoshi to avoid the Job favourtism FFXI suffered from, where players determined what Job worked best for what content and made that the meta, and shunned anyone who dared think otherwise even when alternative Jobs and sub job combinations were a viable alternative (some Jobs simply found it impossible to ever get parties or clear content).

In an effort to avoid a repeat of those problems, Yoshi wants FFXIV to be accessible to everyone, not just the hardcore players, and the result of that is to try and prevent favouritism of classes/Jobs or class metas appearing by streamlining class and Job gameplay into a more common concept based on role.

Of course there is still a certain amount of it in FFXIV, (such as the WAR-every other tank class belief) but it's nothing like what FFXI had. I guess a balanced approach is probably better, but Yoshi has made his choice and is sticking to it.

[Lihtleita]

hey remember when monk was unique and varied and then noone played it until they took away all the things that made it unique

[anhaato]

People played HW monk quite a lot, not sure what you're talking about there

Also monk is more unique now than in 5.4 and more people are playing it

[Dzian]

The Jobs ARE varied to play, I rly dunno what game people are playing who think they play the same.

I'd counter that by askeing what game are they playing if they think jobs play differently..

Paladin. couple of quick combos then spam the same button over and over for foly spirits and blades.
Warrior couple of quick combos and then spam the same button over and over for fell cleaves...
from what i know of drk and gnb there both the same as well but havent levelled either myself.

paladin shelltron. small mitigation tool for you.. intervention same tool but for a party member..
warrior, bloodwetting small mitigatiobn tool for you.. nacistic flash.. same tool but for a party member..

whm.. toss a dot then spam 1.
sch.. tos a dot then spam 1
ast. toss a dot then spam 1

its viirtually every job. you can switch any job in a party for anyother job and nothing changes because they are all the same.... this job has a 5% dps increase on a 2 minute timer.. so does this one and this one and even this one... BORINGGGG

And utility is basically gone ( sadge NIN ).

another reason they're all the exact same.. because heaven forbid 1 job can do something other jobs cant do... which is why utility, debuffs and resource management have all but gone.

[Kolsykol]

I'd counter that by askeing what game are they playing if they think jobs play differently..

Paladin. couple of quick combos then spam the same button over and over for foly spirits and blades.
Warrior couple of quick combos and then spam the same button over and over for fell cleaves...
from what i know of drk and gnb there both the same as well but havent levelled either myself.

paladin shelltron. small mitigation tool for you.. intervention same tool but for a party member..
warrior, bloodwetting small mitigatiobn tool for you.. nacistic flash.. same tool but for a party member..

whm.. toss a dot then spam 1.
sch.. tos a dot then spam 1
ast. toss a dot then spam 1

its viirtually every job. you can switch any job in a party for anyother job and nothing changes because they are all the same.... this job has a 5% dps increase on a 2 minute timer.. so does this one and this one and even this one... BORINGGGG


another reason they're all the exact same.. because heaven forbid 1 job can do something other jobs cant do... which is why utility, debuffs and resource management have all but gone.

I'll agree a little more on Tanks and Healers, but not DPS which is what I was mainly thinking of.
But yes Tanks and Healers I totally agree with you.
Altho I think their DPS rotations while they do have a spammy burst phases aren't quite the same overall ( especially GNB and PLD, DRK and WAR are more similar but DRK with more ogcd's ).
But for Tanks it's definitely more samey than DPS ESPECIALLY with their utility.