Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

[Nethereal]

hopefully the criterion dungeons might be their answer. My heart says that's the case but my brain says "they are going to screw it up. :^)". Then again, i'm a glass half empty kind of guy, lol.

I swear to god if criterion dungeons are just some dumb eureka nonsense. If the only answer to they have to make difficult content is to nerf our character... honestly just sad, very sad.

[Shurrikhan]

Again you are personally making a judgement call about what is easy and what is not. You are literally telling others that because a concept you find simple to understand is easily implemented BY YOU.. it's easy. Many people in this thread are subtly (and not so subtly) "bragging" about what they find easy and it's detracting from the actual problem.

You might as well say that there is no such as thing as a person being "short" or "tall" because there could always theoretically be someone shorter or taller.

There is no mainstay content easier than dungeons. To call it then, among mainstay content (and that is the obvious frame of reference here) a whopping "midcore" is some seriously stretched relativism.

When someone says "don't make something savage difficulty!" try to understand what they actually consider to be that difficult before condemning them.

But that's the thing. If you divorce all qualitative measures (e.g., "easy," "medium," or "hard") from their normal frames of reference (say, other reward-bearing content) and a more or less typical player's experience (judging it instead by such extremes as having barely "the capacity to login to the game and watch a cutscene")... you've purposely broken down communication. You'll have ignored context, you'll have not looked outside yourself to try to determine what's actually typical between your and others' circles, and you'll have just made it all instead into nonsensible ambiguity.

We needn't stop saying such things as "red" or "blue" just because the way you experience those colors might be different from the way others do. Focus instead on where someone is left with fewer colors, where there are no applicable difficulty levels between, say, "too easy" and "too hard" and address those. That means accessibility and support, yes, but it also means giving more damn options, more variety.

[kaynide]

FF14 hard is entirely complicated mechanics you need to watch a guide and memorize to beat. Also number must be high enough. Even Dark Souls does it better as you can beat shit with a stick and loincloth if you want to and there are many ways to handle a boss.

While I would generally agree with you if we are talking about my personal level of play, I consider my play level/game skill as better than average.

Regardless of my personal level, the guides exist, are used by many and are especially useful to a lot of players I know, including my wife and our 60+ year old grandpa friend. They are not what I would call gamers, but they enjoy this particular game.

If the Japanese TV drama Father of Light wasn’t too obvious, these kinds of players are the target audience. We are not talking about dark souls vets. We are talking cookie crush or like.. the Sims.

[Shurrikhan]

I swear to god if criterion dungeons are just some dumb eureka nonsense. If the only answer to they have to make difficult content is to nerf our character... honestly just sad, very sad.

Honestly, I wouldn't be against proportionately greater reward (tokens, chance at additional drop, etc.) per ilvl synced down from the current (or past expansion's) ilvl cap in going for a [Minimum Item Level] run.

That'd be an easy way to let players make runs more challenging for themselves while also less punishing undergeared players (who could likewise just queue [Minimum Item Level] to feel like they've got fairer contribution, even if their run might take a bit longer).

But... that's something that should have been an easy shoe-in x.x5 patch back in Heavensward or the like, not a replacement for a new system.

[Krotoan]

You might as well say that there is no such as thing as a person being "short" or "tall" because there could always theoretically be someone shorter or taller.

Every instance of that has an easily verifiable standard. However some guy who is 5'6" in japan isn't considered short, while a 6 foot guy in say Sweden isn't considered tall. Context, perception and standard.

There is no mainstay content easier than dungeons.

MSQ non dungeons are content. New area's to explore and RP or just wander in are content. New items to play with or craft towards or gather are content.

To call it then, among mainstay content (and that is the obvious frame of reference here) a whopping "midcore" is some seriously stretched relativism.

When you're speaking to someone who claims you're asking for everything to be "hardcore" maybe get some of their perspective and don't assume everyone is using your standard.

But that's the thing. If you divorce all qualitative measures (e.g., "easy," "medium," or "hard") from their normal frames of reference (say, other reward-bearing content) and a more or less typical player's experience (judging it instead by such extremes as having barely "the capacity to login to the game and watch a cutscene")... you've purposely broken down communication. You'll have ignored context, you'll have not looked outside yourself to try to determine what's actually typical between your and others' circles, and you'll have just made it all instead into nonsensible ambiguity.

The problem that I'm stating being that all you're doing is saying your standard is "normal" and not even trying to see it from anyone elses.

We needn't stop saying such things as "red" or "blue" just because the way you experience those colors might be different from the way others do. Focus instead on where someone is left with fewer colors, where there are no applicable difficulty levels between, say, "too easy" and "too hard" and address those. That means accessibility and support, yes, but it also means giving more damn options, more variety.

I never said we shouldn't have more options or that what we have is fine and OK forever and everything. I'm saying if your problem is someone telling you that all your requests are "savage difficulty on everything" (the actual OP's complaint) maybe ask them what they think hard IS instead of yelling at them that everything is too easy.

[Kazelus]

When people ask for difficulty in dungeon, their asking for a dungeon that justify the presence of a healer in a group, that justify people doing their combo correctly and using their CD, not optimally just using it would already be gold.
It's a shame that the way to do "expert" right now is one tank and 3 DPS.
Some fight have mechanics that I will honestly says can be perceived as difficult from the lowest players "standard", but if dungeons were actually needing people to think every times, they wouldn't perceive some mechanics as difficult.
If criterion dungeon will be a thing, I don't think it will be more difficult dungeon but easier, that's my opinion on the subject, I don't think they will make them more difficult than actual dungeon...
But someone that complains when people ask for a bit more of difficulty in dungeon is just lazy right now. Especially for EW dungeon that are just a joke, everything is explained with markers even if not needed... Tank buster ? A marker. Multi-hits share ? A different marker. Nothing to discover, you have everything said before it hits.
Give hardcore player an interesting and rentable way to farm tomes without doing roulettes maybe they will less complains about easy dungeon cause right now, they are forced to do them for their gear...

[anhaato]

-

You can argue semantics all you want, knock yourself out. The fact of the matter is that you're attributing the difficulty of normal content to the lack of skill of others who play it. Yes, lack of skill, because you specifically named mistakes. Just because I call them "shitters," and not to their faces, doesn't mean you're not also looking down upon your fellow players in doing so. I used to be a shitter, and I got better. Everyone has the chance to do so, just depends on whether or not they want to. Unfortunately, not a lot want to.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed because you fail to consider first that casual players and savage players overlap. Every savage player has some degree of experience in casual content.

Second, you refuse to understand that savage is not purely memorization, and I'm not sure how many times I have to explain that for you to get it. Have you done savage at all? I doubt it, considering you're arguing based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what it entails, but I'll retain benefit of the doubt for the time being. Feel free to prove that you know what you're talking about and are speaking from a place of experience rather than hearsay.

Becoming accustomed to rotations in tandem with mechanics is, itself, difficult. You seem to be intent on arguing that it's not, for whatever reason. Further, being able to quickly become accustomed to a fight in terms of correct mechanics and a consistent rotation is a skill that is built up over time. It's the difference between taking a while to get your first green in E1S versus getting your first purple in P1S within a matter of two or three clears. Is that not a retainable skill? Oh, whoops, sorry I forgot third party tools are bad! Guess that means I'm not good at the game, according to you (for the record I don't use ACT). Or am I? You don't seem to be able to make up your mind.

I would appreciate if you wouldn't backtrack. You distinguished memorization, after attributing it as the sole skill required for savages, from "true skills" for a reason. You talked about a "savage guru" getting outshined by people with these "true skills" for a reason. There's no reason you would argue this if not to prop up one type of player over another. If that wasn't the intent, then you must understand why that appeared to be so.

You argued "the difficulty the devs have to work at to make sure the game is playable for all their subscribers" for a reason. There's no reason you would argue this if not under the assumption that I was asking for normal content to be more difficult, which I did not. If that wasn't the intent, then you must understand why that appeared to be so.

No offense taken here, by the way. I simply disagree. And was I wrong? Were you not springing to Square Enix's defense with your asinine comment?

Also, if I were you I'd make sure I'm damn secure with my own performance before I started accusing others of reliance on third party tools in order to invalidate their hard work and skill. I won't be so shallow as to visit a certain website to determine whether or not you have the proper highground to be making such statements and try to use it against you if possible... but others will.

[hagare]

Because there exists a group out there of brain dead people who somehow never played a video game before and stumbled into FF14 with the promise of roleplay and cute cat girls and somehow can't do something I can do drunk at 3am. And as not to drive this mythical normie player base that really should be playing a gacha game or something if they're so "bless their hearts" we can't have reasonable difficulty. FF14 is either so easy you can afk and win or knock you on your ass requiring coordination of a well trained special ops unit to pass (looking at ultimate and the last two Asphodelos savages)

and this ladies and gentlemen, is why people don't listen to you.

[Kolsykol]

Because there exists a group out there of brain dead people who somehow never played a video game before and stumbled into FF14 with the promise of roleplay and cute cat girls and somehow can't do something I can do drunk at 3am. And as not to drive this mythical normie player base that really should be playing a gacha game or something if they're so "bless their hearts" we can't have reasonable difficulty. FF14 is either so easy you can afk and win or knock you on your ass requiring coordination of a well trained special ops unit to pass (looking at ultimate and the last two Asphodelos savages)

That's funny because imo the first Savage tier in EW was perhaps too easy imo.
I'd probably say P3S is the hardest but mainly just because other people have a tendency to love to run into you with the glory spread so it's not even hard just people panicking very easily.
On my first P4S clear I had only reached Act 2 and tested it a few times before but I understood what to do we just never got past it because others didn't...
But then I did something a bit sneaky which I admit is bad which was to join a clear group open to helpers.
And we one shot it, I didn't even have to practice any of the mech after Act 2 they just solve themselves they're very easy to understand and execute.

I haven't done any of the Ultimates because I don't like being in statics and pugging them is not the best idea.
But imo Ultimates are fine, they're meant to be the hardest content.
I think it'd be a problem if it was like Mythic Plus in WoW or whatever it's called where it's like a whole raid tier, but having a single fight like that with Ultimates that is for a top percent of the players I think is totally fine.
And P1-4S should really be very manageable for casual players.

Maybe you won't week 1 as a casual in P1-4S but I don't think that's an issue either to me thad' be a sign that they're too easy too.
But at this point it's incredibly forgiving and the mechanics are quite simple to learn and not hard at all to execute.
Imo the mechanic complexity and execution difficulty in P1-4S kinda feels like normal too, punishing but simple so long as you're focused.

When people ask for difficulty in dungeon, their asking for a dungeon that justify the presence of a healer in a group, that justify people doing their combo correctly and using their CD, not optimally just using it would already be gold.
It's a shame that the way to do "expert" right now is one tank and 3 DPS.
Some fight have mechanics that I will honestly says can be perceived as difficult from the lowest players "standard", but if dungeons were actually needing people to think every times, they wouldn't perceive some mechanics as difficult.
If criterion dungeon will be a thing, I don't think it will be more difficult dungeon but easier, that's my opinion on the subject, I don't think they will make them more difficult than actual dungeon...
But someone that complains when people ask for a bit more of difficulty in dungeon is just lazy right now. Especially for EW dungeon that are just a joke, everything is explained with markers even if not needed... Tank buster ? A marker. Multi-hits share ? A different marker. Nothing to discover, you have everything said before it hits.
Give hardcore player an interesting and rentable way to farm tomes without doing roulettes maybe they will less complains about easy dungeon cause right now, they are forced to do them for their gear...

The damage issue is indeed silly, it's kinda ridiculous to have everyone die and then the Tank just solos the boss for 10 minutes lol.

[RobynDaBank]

Because there exists a group out there of brain dead people who somehow never played a video game before and stumbled into FF14 with the promise of roleplay and cute cat girls and somehow can't do something I can do drunk at 3am. And as not to drive this mythical normie player base that really should be playing a gacha game or something if they're so "bless their hearts" we can't have reasonable difficulty. FF14 is either so easy you can afk and win or knock you on your ass requiring coordination of a well trained special ops unit to pass (looking at ultimate and the last two Asphodelos savages)

Good luck convincing the developers it's not those filthy brain-dead casuals they need to "cater" to, but your mouth-running self.