Aquamarine Leviathan Amethyst Ramuh Diamond Shiva can we have it for 7.0

[Rika007]

I feel that's the easy knock it out of the park upcoming change for Summoner, and one that most of us probably expect. Adding another Demi on to the rotation pushes the rotation back and will make death's even more punishing then they are now. They will need to find a way to make Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan feel different then the original three as well. Wither that be playing around more with cast times, actual full on combo's that go beyond what Ifrit has, Line or Cone targeted AoE's (could work great for Levi seeing as that is it's whole shtick).

What I really want to see is how the job continues to evolve. I have actually enjoyed the rework, but that's only because I hated ShB Summoner with every fiber of my being after how much I loved SB Summoner. That only holds up for so long. To me Summoner right now very much feels like release Red Mage in Stormblood. A flashy class that really lacks substance and has an incredibly bare bones rotation. They have done an incredible job building on Red Mage in the last two expansions (so much so that I'm now actually really concerned on what they are going to do with it next expansion, normally when a job hits that perfect feeling, it's the next round of changes that screws it all up). I want to see the next steps on Summoner.

-More oGCD's. We have all these instant casts, give me more weaving opportunities please. ESPECIALLY during Bahamut and Phoenix. Let me spam deathflares and whatever an upgraded version of Fester is on the boss, really hammer in that Dragon feel.

-Unlock the utility. Let me access the utility of Phoenix kit (and give Phoenix some new offensive utilities) outside of the Phoenix window, so I can flex that utility like Red Mage can. Also being able to use Radiant Aegis to protect a friend would be cool too.

-Something else. I have no issues with DoT's being gone, but something needs to be happening outside of those DoT's. Maybe an underlying buff to manage that rewards higher damage? It was terrible on Ruination in early ShB summoner but revisiting it with a new system and much less going on in the rotation could be a good way to add some needed spice.

[Flana]

-More oGCD's. We have all these instant casts, give me more weaving opportunities please. ESPECIALLY during Bahamut and Phoenix. Let me spam deathflares and whatever an upgraded version of Fester is on the boss, really hammer in that Dragon feel.

It blows my mind SE was obsessed with turning smn into a Coil Mage and somehow at no point did they ever actually let Ahk Morn act like Ahk Morn. That's its entire thing, it starts casting sequential hits. Bahamut coming out to poop one ahk morn and then air humping doesn't have anywhere near that level of impact. We could have built up charges or something for him to convert into dunks instead of just bland autos, but it never happened.

[Raikai]

Adding another Demi on to the rotation pushes the rotation back and will make death's even more punishing then they are now.

But would be, really?

If they keep the overall DPS between phases balanced, let's say in a simplified example: Bahamut Phase 100dps, Phoenix Phase 90dps, New Demi Phase 120dps - Death would still be punishing yeah, because it would meant the player would not get to the last phase, however the damage disparity not having a huge gap wouldn't bear a huge problem.

This basically raises the skill ceiling without raising the skill floor, because (much like BLM) the player would depend on mastering the fight to avoid deaths.

[Flana]

But would be, really?

If they keep the overall DPS between phases balanced, let's say in a simplified example: Bahamut Phase 100dps, Phoenix Phase 90dps, New Demi Phase 120dps - Death would still be punishing yeah, because it would meant the player would not get to the last phase, however the damage disparity not having a huge gap wouldn't bear a huge problem.

This basically raises the skill ceiling without raising the skill floor, because (much like BLM) the player would depend on mastering the fight to avoid deaths.

No, it is still a problem. Even in your example of having similar dps you're missing how a death impacts the overall damage. Not only do you not get the higher damage phase, deaths can reset the rotation causing you to go back to the start. Now you're taking even longer to get to the higher phase on top of the one you already lost. This rotation also makes your 4 minute window align with the worst possible phase, which does not feel good.

It also means you get weaker when leveling up because you lose every other 1st phase for the weaker 2nd in all content before the 3rd trance which is just nonsense. This does matter since the game has non max-level evergreen content like Deep Dungeon or Ultimate.

This kind of thing has a dramatic effect on the skill floor. You're absolutely screwed by deaths which makes baseline play harder. It's also not worthwhile to pretend deaths don't happen, as if no one in this game is ever progging anything ever. The worse the loss is the more a stigma against Summoner will grow because a bad Summoner becomes that much worse. People aren't going to want them at all in PF if player skill becomes even more of a liability.