Incoming Frontline pvp adjustment - What changes do you think necessary?

[Shougun]

Been having fun minus when in Frontlines where like 5 summoners use their LB together and your whole group dies with nothing to be able to respond to lol.. I think a full lb of damage makes sense and shouldn't be nerfed, as they need oomph, but perhaps a very short lasting buff after getting hit on lb to makes stacking Lb damage not so crazy. You can tell when there is an organized group over a discord like setting because you'll exist one second and be respawning the next each time you meet them (with their LB available).

Although to be honest that doesn't even happen that often. It's just "yeh.. sure oki.." once in the while that it does.

[JanVanding]

wall of words talking about anything but what I said

Balance issue does not mean the strategy is completely unbeatable, I don't know why you're going on this whole rant. BLM was excessively weak in CC for instance but that does not mean the job didn't have skilled players that stuck with it and got to Crystal rank.

It doesn't change the fact of balance.

If something is common, easy to do, has a very high success rate and wins much more than it loses? That's a balance issue.

Nothing to do with strategy, skill or the amount of hoops you're jumping through and mental gymnastics you're doing to try and tell yourself it's not.

It has a high play rate, a high success rate and wins more than it loses.

That means, it's not balanced.

Why did RDM and WAR take pretty substantial nerfs? Because they were not balanced.

Why did several jobs get buffed? Because they were not balanced.

Why has the dev team specifically talked about frontline, pointing the finger at this strategy?

Because it's not balanced.

Overpowered does not mean unbeatable, nobody would play anything else if it was unbeatable and every match would devolve into only those jobs and nothing else.

It means tipped in the favour of.

And your lack of understanding of that basic principle says while you think you know, like many others that claim to be "highly skilled", your knowledge of balance comes up found wanting.

As they say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[JanVanding]

In fact let me put this whole frontline balancing issue in a simple to understand context

Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2. A game absolutely notorious for some very, very broken and imbalanced things.

I'm sure many of you remember a perk by the name of Commando Pro?

I'm sure many of you were horrified when you came up against someone using it how they would seemingly teleport through your bullets, one shot you and run wild through your team because of how easy it was for the perk to take advantage of things like Marathon pro so they'd be in perma sprint and because P2P hosting, the server ticks were notoriously bad giving the knife wielder an insane hit register advantage.

There were people that tried to defend it, that tried to say "oh just use Martyrdom to counter it", "It's not that OP just L2P"

Commando pro has not existed in a call of duty game since.....well, until Vanguard and guess what? It's considered absolutely busted even in the modern game, 12 years on.

The people that tend to defend things like that tend to fall into two categories.

1. The Abuser. They know full well it's broken, they want to keep abusing it and your fun don't matter to them, they want to win and this gives them an easy way to do it.

2. The perpetually in denial. They don't want to accept anything in their favourite game can ever be imbalanced or abuseable, "everything is beatable!" They scream. "It's only a 50% win rate" they protest, while completely failing to notice their own team mates employed the very same strategy to win.

So the next time you see a poster that thinks they are somehow more knowledgeable in the games balance than the actual dev team.

Remember

People defended the existence and balance of Commando pro 12 years ago and still do to this very day.

[Lustre]

Imagine expecting coordinated battles and strategies with 24 randoms lmao. Everyone listing hypothetical situations thatll never actually happen

[HalinFluffyBuns]

For purify to actually work and not get screwed over cause of the server delay that's my only gripe with pvp right now

[Nanne]

Imagine expecting coordinated battles and strategies with 24 randoms lmao. Everyone listing hypothetical situations thatll never actually happen

Try couple of Frontlines in JP data centers and then come back and see how much of a difference there is. Everyone is sticking together in JP and communicating/syncing LB's and listening to the call outs meanwhile here people just run around like headless chickens

[Jettinson]

The point isn't about coordinating or being skilled or whatever, it's Frontline, it is about big chaotic fights with 72 players, you will get all kinds of play there.


What i am glad is that Yoshi P did address the Limit Break issue in Frontline because right now it is stupid how you can get LB from not even fighting and how quickly you get, LBs are much much stroger than ever.

And of course purify/server ticks or delays and such but it is a general problem and not just in FL

[Hanayumi]

Think current kits are fine for all jobs all they just really need to make adrenaline guage take far longer to max for majority of the jobs if not all...

[AnotherPerson]

Balance issue does not mean the strategy is completely unbeatable, I don't know why you're going on this whole rant. BLM was excessively weak in CC for instance but that does not mean the job didn't have skilled players that stuck with it and got to Crystal rank.

It doesn't change the fact of balance.

If something is common, easy to do, has a very high success rate and wins much more than it loses? That's a balance issue.

Nothing to do with strategy, skill or the amount of hoops you're jumping through and mental gymnastics you're doing to try and tell yourself it's not.

It has a high play rate, a high success rate and wins more than it loses.

That means, it's not balanced.

Why did RDM and WAR take pretty substantial nerfs? Because they were not balanced.

Why did several jobs get buffed? Because they were not balanced.

Why has the dev team specifically talked about frontline, pointing the finger at this strategy?

Because it's not balanced.

Overpowered does not mean unbeatable, nobody would play anything else if it was unbeatable and every match would devolve into only those jobs and nothing else.

It means tipped in the favour of.

And your lack of understanding of that basic principle says while you think you know, like many others that claim to be "highly skilled", your knowledge of balance comes up found wanting.

As they say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

That's.. not how balance works? You're "balancing to the standard deviation" via winrates, rather than what a job's capable output can preform. If you were balancing to the standard deviation, then you should also know that's why PvP Black mage is getting reverted in 6.15. That's the primary reason why Yoshi P mentions PvP Black Mage was overtuned in Crystalline Conflict once patch 6.11a came out is because of the winrates, but after play-testing, he realized there wasn't such a need for those kinds of buffs because the job currently excels in the hands of a good player. AKA player skill issue for most players being unable to utilize the job's toolkit effectively. He mentions in the lodestone that they found out after play-testing the job, but it was too late to change it after patch 6.11a was ready to be released.