Ninja changes

[Shurrikhan]

To clarify, are you suggesting we remove Ninki generation from our base GCDs, and put it all on mudras? That's quite different from how I interpreted your original statement, and I'd feel a lot different about that.

I'm suggesting that instead of increasing AE/AC Ninki gen from 10 to 15 with Endwalker's Shukiko III trait, we put 10 on each Ninjutsu used in combat (not each mudra). The result would be near identical, just more aligned with burst.

[AlnoAshen]

I thank you guys for reading my post,and a lot of you have commented the changes you would like to see in the current iteration of ninja,and thats ok,thats your opinion but this was not my intention in creating this post.

My purpose in creating the post was to say that 6.05 was an amazing version of the ninja,a job I love.The synergy in between each skill was amazing and it had a profound effect on each party it joined. Almost every single job in game would play differently if there was a ninja in the party,this is what I miss.

But,that being said,In saying this it would seem I have become one of those people who are never happy no matter what so I would like to take my post back.I want to say ninja is fuctionaly unchanged gameplay wise from 6.05 and so it still feels really really amazing to play,so please just dont dont change it any further.

[aloneatsea]

I'm suggesting that instead of increasing AE/AC Ninki gen from 10 to 15 with Endwalker's Shukiko III trait, we put 10 on each Ninjutsu used in combat (not each mudra). The result would be near identical, just more aligned with burst.

Mm, yeah, I still don't like this idea. Having gauge generation on every single one of your abilities doesn't sound even remotely fun to manage. You get more Ninki overall, which doesn't really solve anything, given we already generate tons of it, and your burst windows become that much more tight without increasing the complexity of your rotation outside of Trick windows.


I just don't understand why you're so opposed to having a very basic gauge gainer on a long-ish cooldown. It doesn't even need to be something you can use in combat. Maybe you can only use it outside of combat (or it has a long cast that's only instant outside of combat, like Reaper's Soulsow), so it's main use is to kick off Bunshin, or be used to gain gauge during downtime.

[Shurrikhan]

Again... no, it would not give Ninki on "every single one of your abilities". I specified ONE, not all. Not every NIN ability is Ninjutsu; that name describes ONE ability. The Ninki generated per two minutes, meanwhile, would be nearly identical between getting 10 Ninki per Ninjutsu (110 per minute) and an extra 5 per AE/AC (~102 per 2 minutes).

I'm not "so opposed" to having a skill that only generates resource; I simply dislike skills being thematic in name alone.

If Perfect Balance (Blitz being separate), for instance, merely gave full Chakra, would that feel satisfying? It'd still be worth hefty potency, but would it have anything to do with balance? Would it offer any new gameplay loops? That's what a Mug that merely gives Ninki and a dab if direct potency feels like to me. Nothing about it fits its name. Nothing about it shouts Rogue. And if all that were irrelevant, why wouldn't it be given as a NIN skill, named, in Japanese for every localization, after some swift unarmed strike technique?

[aloneatsea]

Again... no, it would not give Ninki on "every single one of your abilities". I specified ONE, not all. Not every NIN ability is Ninjutsu; that name describes ONE ability. The Ninki generated per two minutes, meanwhile, would be nearly identical between getting 10 Ninki per Ninjutsu (110 per minute) and an extra 5 per AE/AC (~102 per 2 minutes).

My apologies, I should have been more clear - I was referring to abilities on the GCD, which with your suggested changes, would all grant Ninki.

I'm not "so opposed" to having a skill that only generates resource; I simply dislike skills being thematic in name alone.

If Perfect Balance (Blitz being separate), for instance, merely gave full Chakra, would that feel satisfying? It'd still be worth hefty potency, but would it have anything to do with balance? Would it offer any new gameplay loops? That's what a Mug that merely gives Ninki and a dab if direct potency feels like to me. Nothing about it fits its name. Nothing about it shouts Rogue. And if all that were irrelevant, why wouldn't it be given as a NIN skill, named, in Japanese for every localization, after some swift unarmed strike technique?

Which is why I said your Mug changes were a great idea, and suggested moving the Ninki gain onto another button.

[Shurrikhan]

My apologies, I should have been more clear - I was referring to abilities on the GCD, which with your suggested changes, would all grant Ninki.

I've literally never said that. I said Ninjutsu. Only Ninjutsu.

Shukiko I "increases Ninki Gauge by 5 upon successfully landing certain weaponskills or completing certain combos."

Shukiko II "increases Ninki Gauge by 10 upon successfully completing a combo with Aeolian Edge or Armor Crush."

Shukiko III "Increases Ninki Gauge by 15 upon successfully completing a combo with Aeolian Edge or Armor Crush."

My suggestion was ONLY to replace Shukiko III's current effect (written above) with "While in combat, increases Ninki Gauge by 10 upon completing any Ninjutsu." That produces nearly the exact same amount of Ninki per average minute, just more burstily. And at that point, we don't need to use up a button just on being able to burst out 50 Ninki early in the fight.

Ninjutsu do(es) NOT include any and all Ninja abilities, let alone GCDs. It refers only to the attacks normally produced by hitting the Ninjutsu button or via Ten-Chi-Jin: Fuma Shuriken, Katon, Raiton, Hyoton, Huton, Doton, Suiton, Goka Mekkyaku, and Hyosho Ranryu.

Which is why I said your Mug changes were a great idea, and suggested moving the Ninki gain onto another button.

And I'd be okay with that. I just think that function is utterly unnecessary (fine, yes, but unnecessary) and a bit of waste to spend a whole button on.

Edit: For similar reasons, I would argue that our 2 Raijuu skills should optionally replace Armor Crush and Aeolian Edge while available (if taken off any and all hotbars, then they replace those skills; otherwise, they do not), since the stacks are otherwise wasted anyways, and that Huraijin and Armor Crush should be consolidated. The latter is pretty easily done: simply increase Armor Crush's base potency, siphoned from its combo bonus (same total potency), and change its 30s Huton refresh via "Combo Bonus" to just 30s Huton generation as an "Additional Effect".

[aloneatsea]

snip

My point is that currently, outside of ninjutsu casts, every GCD ability Ninja has currently grants Ninki. Your basic combo does, Raijus do, Throwing Dagger does, Phantom does, and Huraijin does. By adding Ninki to Ninjutsu casts as per your suggestion, every single GCD a NIN can make will increase the Ninki gauge.


Your changes don't specify that every GCD ability will increase the Ninki gauge, but without changing anything else, your changes will lead to every GCD ability increasing the Ninki gauge, unless further changes are made.
I hope this helps to clarify what I've been trying to say, unless I'm misunderstanding you somewhere?

[Misplaced_Marbles]

I guess this isn't entirely relevant to the topic, but anyway, was changing places of jin and chi in mudra combos a mix up or something? Not like it changed anything since you can just change their places on your hotbar for the same old combo, but nothing else that makes sense other than it being a mistake comes to mind.

Edit: Huh, turns out I was the one who mixed them up. Whoops...