*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Alleo]

I mean, if someone told me an apocalypse was coming, I'd want to know what caused it and how they know. I wouldn't have any reason to even believe them otherwise.

Also the issue isn't Fandaniel being suspected by others - it's him putting two and two together, figuring out that the universe is dead and empty outside of Etheriys, and that his beloved creation wants to bring sweet death to everyone and everything he knows.

Yeah you have Hermes who basically needed to wipe his own memories so that he would stand and fight alongside his people for survival. A Fandaniel who somehow learns the truth could be a huge danger. Him finding out could in the worst case just destroy everything.

And for the rest of the people: We dont really know how many Ancients Venat even talked to. There is probably no reason to talk to every single one of them because how could she even prove something like that? And how would these people react to learning about the horrible future that could be in store for them. After all we see with the Ea how knowledge can destroy a race.

So she probably had to be really careful on whom to contact. And she did contact others. After all we know that she created the rabbits and the moon prison with them.

Its just that in the end we bascially are missing a lot of the stuff that happened between us leaving Elpis and Venat sundering the world. Heck we dont even know how long it took for the Final Days to arrive.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Yeah you have Hermes who basically needed to wipe his own memories so that he would stand and fight alongside his people for survival. A Fandaniel who somehow learns the truth could be a huge danger. Him finding out could in the worst case just destroy everything.

And for the rest of the people: We dont really know how many Ancients Venat even talked to. There is probably no reason to talk to every single one of them because how could she even prove something like that? And how would these people react to learning about the horrible future that could be in store for them. After all we see with the Ea how knowledge can destroy a race.

So she probably had to be really careful on whom to contact. And she did contact others. After all we know that she created the rabbits and the moon prison with them.

Its just that in the end we bascially are missing a lot of the stuff that happened between us leaving Elpis and Venat sundering the world. Heck we dont even know how long it took for the Final Days to arrive.

As has been posted in here god knows how many times, the "how could she prove" argument is beyond watered down. The echo exists, she can show them that way or they can look into her memories.

[KariTheFox]

Yeah you have Hermes who basically needed to wipe his own memories so that he would stand and fight alongside his people for survival. A Fandaniel who somehow learns the truth could be a huge danger. Him finding out could in the worst case just destroy everything.

Yeah, we - and also Venat knows what happens when Fandaniel has an existensial crisis. He is willing to spend thousands of years pretending to be your ally, while working behind the scenes to make sure that when he gets the oppurtunity, he can hijack Zodiark and then kill and himself inside Zodiark, and jumpstart the Final Days all over again. This isn't speculation, it's what happened, and that was just from Xande telling him life is meaningless bro. Learning about Meteion would have been even worse for him.

Venat would have had to be incredibly careful to only let people know that a) would believe her b) wouldn't panic and c) wouldn't believe it's thier civic duty to immediately inform the convocation (and therefore Fandaniel) about the impending crisis. That probably ends up being a very small list of people.

[Stepjam]

This is an mmorpg, we are the WoL and therefore we decide who we are, the WoL is not some independent character so from my perspective it makes absolute sense to join Emet Selch.

Another thing people forget is that they keep talking about "genocide" while Emet Selch did say that by perpetuating this farce you are only causing more destruction and suffering overall than just one quick worldwide snap destruction and that is a fact, the overall suffering and destruction would be far less if the Ancients were able to return by causing those rejoinings and that says a lot.


And how about the Ancients? Seems to me that people have completely forgotten and chose to justify the genocide of the ancients at the hands of Hydaelin which destroyed their entire civilization which was objectively superior, immortality, ability to create concepts, those are objectively superior traits and you cant argue against that.
It is like being a god and then turned into a mere mortal without any special powers, that is literal degradation.

So what we have now is people defending the genocide of the ancients and perpetuating a far worse and inferior world that is filled with destruction and suffering.

It would be similar like real life, the planet and species are a disaster, yet people due to their attachment would be willing to protect this war ridden planet(and not referring to just the current popular one) that might soon be uninhabitable due to climate change rather than see it gone to bring back an objectively superior world, because again, the ancients are not some delusional people like some IRL people who obsess over "le good old days", the ancients were objectively superior so you would be arguing against a better world simply because you are used to this disaster of a world.

And let's be honest, it is illogical to assume that Ancients wouldnt have figured out the problem considering how research focused they were and how zodiarc protected the planet for literally thousands of years and would for many more.

Rather late reply, but you control the Warrior of Light within the context of the story. You can RP personality to an extent, but ultimately you have no control over the major choices the Warrior of Light makes. The writers of the story have that. And in their story, the Warrior of Light doesn't stand for what Emet does and thus chooses to fight against him. You can RP perhaps specific reasons why, but you don't really have a say in the end over the action itself.

This isn't DnD where you can make any choice you want. Ultimately the Warrior of Light feels certain ways about things regardless of how you feel. They have personality traits that are clearly seen no matter who is playing (they are generally pretty stoic, they nod a lot, they are really kind of a giant push over when people ask them to do stuff, etc etc). Roleplay and headcanon only goes so far in this kinda of storytelling.

[Alleo]

As has been posted in here god knows how many times, the "how could she prove" argument is beyond watered down. The echo exists, she can show them that way or they can look into her memories.

I watched the Venat cutscene again on youtube to make sure.

This is what she states about the echo we use to see Hermes and Meteion on that isle: "Process of piecing together an event from ripples left in the ambient aether [...] such memories are giving to fading however and can prove challenging to visit."

So that method could easily not be useable anymore simply because the memories faded away.

That leaves us with the looking into her memory echo. Maybe she even used that to get all those ancients who followed her on her side. But even if she could prove it that way, it would still leave the aspect of how people would react to it.

As we found out in Elpis, the Ancients are not that horrible different from us. They may have a different way to look at the world and their role in it but they still seem to have the same emotions. Even in Eorzea the common people are not told everything because it could lead to panic and more problems. Why should it be different with the Ancients, especially when they on top of having our emotions, have creation magic too?

Its also bad if these things would then reach the attention of the wrong people, including Fandaniel.

So she probably needed to make sure to only show it to people that she can trust AND that will be helpful for the plan. What good would it do to tell x amount of people about the coming doom, hoping that they dont panic or gossip, when they might not have any skills that will help in avoiding it?

Edit:
In the end we dont have all the informations. We dont know if those Ancients we saw in that one recording in shadowbringer were all those that were on her side or only those in the most inner circle..the ones that will die for her. Elidibus only came out of Zodiark because there were enough Ancients against their plan, so I doubt it would just have been those we see in that recording. Maybe she had more on her side that helped but were not willing to bascially became fuel for her.

[anhaato]

How cute that it wouldn’t have worked because their memories faded meanwhile we’re out here passing out from glimpses of other people’s private lives from 200 years ago in the middle of battle. Seriously how is that supposed to make sense? They can’t view where they were then because they forgot? Meanwhile our minds get randomly assaulted with visions of stuff we weren’t there for?

[Rulakir]

We dont know if those Ancients we saw in that one recording in shadowbringer were all those that were on her side or only those in the most inner circle..the ones that will die for her.

We don't know this. The Anyder cutscene is at best inconclusive and at worst evidence she never told anyone the truth, including her own summoners who quite possibly ended up having their souls consumed without consent. It's basically another case of "just take Venat's word for it because there's literally nothing else in game that supports it (if not outright contradicts it)".

Especially given that by all appearances the 3rd sacrifice was a red herring, it would mean whatever followers she amassed were under false pretenses. Further adding to this is none of her actual minions know anything either, like the Watcher or the lopporits. It really does appear she never confided anything to anyone, even those there's no excuse to not tell the truth.

It's not surprising as I can't imagine she'd be able to convince any sane person that their single only option was omnicide, the result of which was not guaranteed success.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I watched the Venat cutscene again on youtube to make sure.

This is what she states about the echo we use to see Hermes and Meteion on that isle: "Process of piecing together an event from ripples left in the ambient aether [...] such memories are giving to fading however and can prove challenging to visit."

So that method could easily not be useable anymore simply because the memories faded away.

That leaves us with the looking into her memory echo. Maybe she even used that to get all those ancients who followed her on her side. But even if she could prove it that way, it would still leave the aspect of how people would react to it.

As we found out in Elpis, the Ancients are not that horrible different from us. They may have a different way to look at the world and their role in it but they still seem to have the same emotions. Even in Eorzea the common people are not told everything because it could lead to panic and more problems. Why should it be different with the Ancients, especially when they on top of having our emotions, have creation magic too?

Its also bad if these things would then reach the attention of the wrong people, including Fandaniel.

So she probably needed to make sure to only show it to people that she can trust AND that will be helpful for the plan. What good would it do to tell x amount of people about the coming doom, hoping that they dont panic or gossip, when they might not have any skills that will help in avoiding it?

Edit:
In the end we dont have all the informations. We dont know if those Ancients we saw in that one recording in shadowbringer were all those that were on her side or only those in the most inner circle..the ones that will die for her. Elidibus only came out of Zodiark because there were enough Ancients against their plan, so I doubt it would just have been those we see in that recording. Maybe she had more on her side that helped but were not willing to bascially became fuel for her.

Im not saying to tell every random joe whats going to happen. At the very least though, tell the convocation, seeing as theyre the higher ups and more powerful of people. She knows who is important, she has knowledge of it.I believe she even says at a specific point that the common people could indeed handle being told the truth.Also yes, the memory echo is specifcally what i was talking about, not whatever else you brought up.

[EaraGrace]

Im not saying to tell every random joe whats going to happen. At the very least though, tell the convocation, seeing as theyre the higher ups and more powerful of people. She knows who is important, she has knowledge of it.I believe she even says at a specific point that the common people could indeed handle being told the truth.Also yes, the memory echo is specifcally what i was talking about, not whatever else you brought up.

Exactly how easy the memory echo is to use is also an open ended question. We’re shown multiple examples of the Unsundered not using it when it’s to their own benefit, (Lahabrea and Thordan, Emet and the Crystal Exarch, Emet/Hyth and the WoL in Elpis) so exactly how useful it would be to verifying specific information remains unclear.

[KariTheFox]

Exactly how easy the memory echo is to use is also an open ended question. We’re shown multiple examples of the Unsundered not using it when it’s to their own benefit, (Lahabrea and Thordan, Emet and the Crystal Exarch, Emet/Hyth and the WoL in Elpis) so exactly how useful it would be to verifying specific information remains unclear.

It's not like Venat's memories actually prove the Final Days are coming - she has memories of the WoL telling her about them, and Meteion's report, promise to kill us all and Hermes using Kairos.

None of that actually proves that the Final Days are coming to a skeptic. How do you know that Warrior of Light is telling the truth? How do you know this Meteion creature is even capable of what she says she's capable of? The two that could give corroborating testimony, Meteion and the WoL are long gone.

You could ask Fandaniel about the nature of Meteion, to understand if she could do what she says she can do, but now you're just back to the problem of letting Fandaniel know anything about the real causes of the Final Days.