*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[KariTheFox]

I find it a little odd how heavily people lean into the brainwashed Hermes as being such a huge obstacle to telling the Convocation about the Final Days when the immediate important factor was that a dynamis-induced apocalypse is coming, not that it's being instigated by someone's rogue creation or that the entire universe outside of Etheriys is probably dead.

It's not as though she couldn't stretch the truth a little in order to deflect suspicion away from him, plus the Elpis flowers existed both as proof of dynamis as a concept and as a way to measure its effects.

I mean, if someone told me an apocalypse was coming, I'd want to know what caused it and how they know. I wouldn't have any reason to even believe them otherwise.

Also the issue isn't Fandaniel being suspected by others - it's him putting two and two together, figuring out that the universe is dead and empty outside of Etheriys, and that his beloved creation wants to bring sweet death to everyone and everything he knows.

[thegreatonemal]

I mean, if someone told me an apocalypse was coming, I'd want to know what caused it and how they know. I wouldn't have any reason to even believe them otherwise.

Also the issue isn't Fandaniel being suspected by others - it's him putting two and two together, figuring out that the universe is dead and empty outside of Etheriys, and that his beloved creation wants to bring sweet death to everyone and everything he knows.

Also he is the one who ends up pinpointing where the final days will occur next, without his counsel there is a chance that any solution wouldn't be as effective.

[Alleo]

I mean, if someone told me an apocalypse was coming, I'd want to know what caused it and how they know. I wouldn't have any reason to even believe them otherwise.

Also the issue isn't Fandaniel being suspected by others - it's him putting two and two together, figuring out that the universe is dead and empty outside of Etheriys, and that his beloved creation wants to bring sweet death to everyone and everything he knows.

Yeah you have Hermes who basically needed to wipe his own memories so that he would stand and fight alongside his people for survival. A Fandaniel who somehow learns the truth could be a huge danger. Him finding out could in the worst case just destroy everything.

And for the rest of the people: We dont really know how many Ancients Venat even talked to. There is probably no reason to talk to every single one of them because how could she even prove something like that? And how would these people react to learning about the horrible future that could be in store for them. After all we see with the Ea how knowledge can destroy a race.

So she probably had to be really careful on whom to contact. And she did contact others. After all we know that she created the rabbits and the moon prison with them.

Its just that in the end we bascially are missing a lot of the stuff that happened between us leaving Elpis and Venat sundering the world. Heck we dont even know how long it took for the Final Days to arrive.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Yeah you have Hermes who basically needed to wipe his own memories so that he would stand and fight alongside his people for survival. A Fandaniel who somehow learns the truth could be a huge danger. Him finding out could in the worst case just destroy everything.

And for the rest of the people: We dont really know how many Ancients Venat even talked to. There is probably no reason to talk to every single one of them because how could she even prove something like that? And how would these people react to learning about the horrible future that could be in store for them. After all we see with the Ea how knowledge can destroy a race.

So she probably had to be really careful on whom to contact. And she did contact others. After all we know that she created the rabbits and the moon prison with them.

Its just that in the end we bascially are missing a lot of the stuff that happened between us leaving Elpis and Venat sundering the world. Heck we dont even know how long it took for the Final Days to arrive.

As has been posted in here god knows how many times, the "how could she prove" argument is beyond watered down. The echo exists, she can show them that way or they can look into her memories.

[Alleo]

As has been posted in here god knows how many times, the "how could she prove" argument is beyond watered down. The echo exists, she can show them that way or they can look into her memories.

I watched the Venat cutscene again on youtube to make sure.

This is what she states about the echo we use to see Hermes and Meteion on that isle: "Process of piecing together an event from ripples left in the ambient aether [...] such memories are giving to fading however and can prove challenging to visit."

So that method could easily not be useable anymore simply because the memories faded away.

That leaves us with the looking into her memory echo. Maybe she even used that to get all those ancients who followed her on her side. But even if she could prove it that way, it would still leave the aspect of how people would react to it.

As we found out in Elpis, the Ancients are not that horrible different from us. They may have a different way to look at the world and their role in it but they still seem to have the same emotions. Even in Eorzea the common people are not told everything because it could lead to panic and more problems. Why should it be different with the Ancients, especially when they on top of having our emotions, have creation magic too?

Its also bad if these things would then reach the attention of the wrong people, including Fandaniel.

So she probably needed to make sure to only show it to people that she can trust AND that will be helpful for the plan. What good would it do to tell x amount of people about the coming doom, hoping that they dont panic or gossip, when they might not have any skills that will help in avoiding it?

Edit:
In the end we dont have all the informations. We dont know if those Ancients we saw in that one recording in shadowbringer were all those that were on her side or only those in the most inner circle..the ones that will die for her. Elidibus only came out of Zodiark because there were enough Ancients against their plan, so I doubt it would just have been those we see in that recording. Maybe she had more on her side that helped but were not willing to bascially became fuel for her.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I watched the Venat cutscene again on youtube to make sure.

This is what she states about the echo we use to see Hermes and Meteion on that isle: "Process of piecing together an event from ripples left in the ambient aether [...] such memories are giving to fading however and can prove challenging to visit."

So that method could easily not be useable anymore simply because the memories faded away.

That leaves us with the looking into her memory echo. Maybe she even used that to get all those ancients who followed her on her side. But even if she could prove it that way, it would still leave the aspect of how people would react to it.

As we found out in Elpis, the Ancients are not that horrible different from us. They may have a different way to look at the world and their role in it but they still seem to have the same emotions. Even in Eorzea the common people are not told everything because it could lead to panic and more problems. Why should it be different with the Ancients, especially when they on top of having our emotions, have creation magic too?

Its also bad if these things would then reach the attention of the wrong people, including Fandaniel.

So she probably needed to make sure to only show it to people that she can trust AND that will be helpful for the plan. What good would it do to tell x amount of people about the coming doom, hoping that they dont panic or gossip, when they might not have any skills that will help in avoiding it?

Edit:
In the end we dont have all the informations. We dont know if those Ancients we saw in that one recording in shadowbringer were all those that were on her side or only those in the most inner circle..the ones that will die for her. Elidibus only came out of Zodiark because there were enough Ancients against their plan, so I doubt it would just have been those we see in that recording. Maybe she had more on her side that helped but were not willing to bascially became fuel for her.

Im not saying to tell every random joe whats going to happen. At the very least though, tell the convocation, seeing as theyre the higher ups and more powerful of people. She knows who is important, she has knowledge of it.I believe she even says at a specific point that the common people could indeed handle being told the truth.Also yes, the memory echo is specifcally what i was talking about, not whatever else you brought up.

[EaraGrace]

Im not saying to tell every random joe whats going to happen. At the very least though, tell the convocation, seeing as theyre the higher ups and more powerful of people. She knows who is important, she has knowledge of it.I believe she even says at a specific point that the common people could indeed handle being told the truth.Also yes, the memory echo is specifcally what i was talking about, not whatever else you brought up.

Exactly how easy the memory echo is to use is also an open ended question. We’re shown multiple examples of the Unsundered not using it when it’s to their own benefit, (Lahabrea and Thordan, Emet and the Crystal Exarch, Emet/Hyth and the WoL in Elpis) so exactly how useful it would be to verifying specific information remains unclear.

[KariTheFox]

Exactly how easy the memory echo is to use is also an open ended question. We’re shown multiple examples of the Unsundered not using it when it’s to their own benefit, (Lahabrea and Thordan, Emet and the Crystal Exarch, Emet/Hyth and the WoL in Elpis) so exactly how useful it would be to verifying specific information remains unclear.

It's not like Venat's memories actually prove the Final Days are coming - she has memories of the WoL telling her about them, and Meteion's report, promise to kill us all and Hermes using Kairos.

None of that actually proves that the Final Days are coming to a skeptic. How do you know that Warrior of Light is telling the truth? How do you know this Meteion creature is even capable of what she says she's capable of? The two that could give corroborating testimony, Meteion and the WoL are long gone.

You could ask Fandaniel about the nature of Meteion, to understand if she could do what she says she can do, but now you're just back to the problem of letting Fandaniel know anything about the real causes of the Final Days.

[KariTheFox]

Yeah you have Hermes who basically needed to wipe his own memories so that he would stand and fight alongside his people for survival. A Fandaniel who somehow learns the truth could be a huge danger. Him finding out could in the worst case just destroy everything.

Yeah, we - and also Venat knows what happens when Fandaniel has an existensial crisis. He is willing to spend thousands of years pretending to be your ally, while working behind the scenes to make sure that when he gets the oppurtunity, he can hijack Zodiark and then kill and himself inside Zodiark, and jumpstart the Final Days all over again. This isn't speculation, it's what happened, and that was just from Xande telling him life is meaningless bro. Learning about Meteion would have been even worse for him.

Venat would have had to be incredibly careful to only let people know that a) would believe her b) wouldn't panic and c) wouldn't believe it's thier civic duty to immediately inform the convocation (and therefore Fandaniel) about the impending crisis. That probably ends up being a very small list of people.