Endwalker is the most controversial expansion

[Raoabolic]

Sorry, but they should never let Elpis into the game like this. The problem is, since we are active in the past, there is no way to fix the causal loops without introducing new different ones.

I was going to say how the writers would use voidmagic to somehow close said time-loop but I'm not sure they even care if it's just out in the open like that, lol.

[Iscah]

Sorry, but they should never let Elpis into the game like this. The problem is, since we are active in the past, there is no way to fix the causal loops without introducing new different ones. If you let Venat's memory being erased then there would never be a space ship. Because Venat would not know, that Meteion is responsible for the first final days etc.

As I said earlier, it could be written that she regains those memories in the aetherial sea.

Alternately, Hydaelyn doesn't need the memory of what happened to Meteion exactly, because she still "tagged" her with aether, and we could turn up with the full story and then it's just "oh, that's why I can detect a fragment of my aether at the edge of the universe; let me give you a map."

We don't need to specifically have a Hydaelyn-designed spaceship as long as we have one from somewhere for some reason. The Sharlayans could have still been building a spaceship for their own scientific purposes, or we could acquire an Allagan full-size Lunar Whale, or the crashed ship on the moon, or the still conspicuously unused Nyunkrepf's Hope. The moon just needed to be Zodiark's prison; the whole "actually a spaceship" plot took us away from actually having any much time spent out on the surface appreciating that we were really there.

There are ways around the details of the time plot that could have worked better than the exact story that we got, without turning it into something completely different if the writers really wanted the time travel element but other aspects were flexible.

[KizuyaKatogami]

As I said earlier, it could be written that she regains those memories in the aetherial sea.

Alternately, Hydaelyn doesn't need the memory of what happened to Meteion exactly, because she still "tagged" her with aether, and we could turn up with the full story and then it's just "oh, that's why I can detect a fragment of my aether at the edge of the universe; let me give you a map."

We don't need to specifically have a Hydaelyn-designed spaceship as long as we have one from somewhere for some reason. The Sharlayans could have still been building a spaceship for their own scientific purposes, or we could acquire an Allagan full-size Lunar Whale, or the creased ship on the moon, or the still conspicuously unused Nyunkrepf's Hope. The moon just needed to be Zodiark's prison; the whole "actually a spaceship" plot took us away from actually having any much time spent out on the surface appreciating that we were really there.

There are ways around the details of the time plot that could have worked better than the exact story that we got, without turning it into something completely different if the writers really wanted the time travel element but other aspects were flexible.

I like that you're at least trying to think of ways it could be fixed. I just have to say though, the fact we the players have to try and undo a supposed professional writer's mess is....both kind of really funny, but also incredibly sad.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

It feels like they saw a bit of a playthrough of Chaos Rings III without any of the context and went: "Yup, that's what we're doing for Endwalker, anyone who says otherwise will be that guy that gets tossed out the window in that meme comic of a man suggesting a non insane idea to his boss." Also play Chaos Rings III, it does what Endwalker wishes it could do in every single way. Hell, it does what XIV wishes it could do. And the best part is it's considered the least good of the AFAIK three.

[EaraGrace]

I'm mostly confused as to why they would want to even leave that question open for a character whom the narrative frames as unanimously good and a hero and Yoshi himself wanted the audience to view as such. It created a dissonance for some that left them feeling detached from the story.

Had they simply had her memories get wiped at the end of Elpis and thus left all of her choices untainted by knowledge of the future, it would've eliminated basically all of the reasons people took issue with how the story portrayed her. I remember you saying you'd feel like that would "cheapen" the decisions she'd made, but I feel like it would've made things much more gratifying if she had actually had to grapple with the weight of whether or not she made the right choice, as opposed to the angle of "It hurts to do this, but it's going to pay off eventually".

She did grapple with it though, like that’s something they’ve made clear in game and out. Venat doesn’t know if this will work out, as simply having us in Elpis isn’t the endgame. It’s someone defeating her and going to Ultima Thule and overcoming despair. Removing her knowledge of Elpis wouldn’t have solved that, if anything, it would just increase the amount of criticism. “How dare she destroy this entire world just to protect some random souls. Those souls probably weren’t even human!”

[Adamantini]

How did this happen?

my guess is that they got where they wanted to go with the game. It should pay off well, and now it's time to relax and invest in other games, while using this one as a money making machine.

I thought I wouldn't dislike a story as much as I did in SB, but EW managed to get over it. More than half of the expansion you can skip the dialogs because there is no difference. In the midst of a disaster, we were trying on carrots and putting on clothes (not to mention that Graha has a dialogue, in the midst of Radz-at-han's confusion, where he stops to talk about the tapestry). Not to mention the other problems that this story had, like the excess of fanservice (the entire Elpis is a fanservice and without relevance) and parts of the story where it's clear that whoever wrote it was begging me to cry (seriously, I couldn't take the unnecessary drama).

Patch 6.1 doesn't improve much. We had the whole SHB on how hard it was to go to the first and back (has anyone forgotten what Cid had to do?), and now I have no doubt that Yshtola will figure out how to go to the void and back, in a matter of days .

Since SHB the game is lacking in details, whether it's cutting the races' ears to fit the hats (and now hairs), as races are limited in content (I must remember that they promised that these races would get more customization options, since they would not make the hats, and after 3 years the races are still without these promised customizations). Also, we have a bot infestation, content removal (ultimate, hildbrand, deep dungeon, halloween event... but at least it looks like these they will fix), even the jumping puzzle that was in the summer event has been removed.

I could list many more things here, but it would be a huge wall of text, and it would be too lazy to read.

[TheMightyMollusk]

(the entire Elpis is a fanservice and without relevance)

Aside from setting up the final boss. Whether or not it did it well is another thing, but to say it's entirely without relevance is incorrect.

[Rolder50]

Aside from setting up the final boss. Whether or not it did it well is another thing, but to say it's entirely without relevance is incorrect.

Yep, can't forget they part where they suddenly introduce the cause of the entire story out of nowhere only to kill her off a few levels later.

[Adamantini]

Aside from setting up the final boss. Whether or not it did it well is another thing, but to say it's entirely without relevance is incorrect.

this could have been boiled down to 1 or 2 quests. We didn't need a whole map about it, where it's warned that NOTHING WE DO THERE WILL CHANGE ANYTHING OF THE PRESENT.

Elpis was only made because Emet Selch was a character adored by the audience. Everything on that map is extremely irrelevant.

[Rulakir]

Elpis was only made because Emet Selch was a character adored by the audience.

Relevant quote: "I can't believe they pulled this ridiculous Emet fanservice only for it to be VENAT FANSERVICE IN DISGUISE".

Speaking as a huge Emet fan, EW wasn't worth it. Emet's character was manipulated beyond belief. First, I'm supposed to believe the mind-wiping device he had significant concerns about in the beginning of the zone he decides wasn't worth investigating by the end of it. Then I'm supposed to believe that after 12k years of "hatred and heartbreak" he praises Venat? GTFO of here. Learning that the bucket list he gives us at the end of UT was Yoshi-P's doing didn't surprise me. I suspect he had his fingerprints all over Emet this time to push a narrative because he's so widely adored and I didn't appreciate it one bit.

Edit: Additionally, not being able to save him/having to watch him die a second time was just wonderful. Happy, satisfying ending for sure. /s