Endwalker is the most controversial expansion

[kpxmanifesto]

Regarding the story, I also did not enjoy how they introduced the big bad half way through, made her the cause of literally everything else that has gone wrong in the world, and then wrapped her story up a few levels later. Just feels like a cheap, out of nowhere ending.

This is the major reason why I disliked the story so much. We didn't see anything about Meteion or Dynamis prior to EW, and they were given so little time to develop that they felt completely out of place in the FFXIV story. Other reasons why I disliked EW were the fake death scenes of all the Scions. Like c'mon SE, we know you're not going to kill off all the main characters.

[kpxmanifesto]

When you go around acting as though it's a requirement to not being a miserable human being that you enjoy the story - wtf are you even smoking at that point? I'd like some of it.

LOL. It's just someone trolling.

[YukikoKurosawa]

Other reasons why I disliked EW were the fake death scenes of all the Scions. Like c'mon SE, we know you're not going to kill off all the main characters.

Death in this series nowadays just exists for momentary shock value before revealing the beloved character is perfectly fine. A death scene has no other purpose than to trick the low iq intended audience who will actually fall for it and be shocked, then relieved and happy when they see their favorite character wasn't actually dead or did die but was brought back. It is nothing more than pure emotional manipulation and it is utterly shameless. It began with the 50 fakeout deaths of post-HW (one of the major reasons I think post-hw was actually bad) and hasn't really stopped. The writers genuinely wanted you to believe the scions were dead in Ultima Thule because they believe you are actually that stupid and easily manipulated.

[Haruka_R]

LOL. It's just someone trolling.

All I did was commend someone for enjoying the story and people got mad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[pikalovr]

but and hear me out here we skip the moon, we kill fandaniel in garlemald, we travel to elpis to figure out why this is all happening still. we DON'T enter a time loop by actually being transparent only being noticible due to our aether. (like emet did to notice us) venat opens the way out of the memory wipe. but hermes was actually successful in stopping her but not us as we escape before the wipe happens. (we could still be fully visible and technically physical as long as venat doesn't escape the wipe i feel like that would still stop the time loop and not force them to come up with an entirely different game zone instead) the sundering still happens but since venat still wouldn't agree with emets plan (if you actually paid attention to their chemistry and how venat acts, it wouldn't be that far fetched that venat would be against the basically mass extinction of themselves to save their existence. and only after zodiark failed does she then decide it needs to be done and gathers her followers/survivors becoming hydalean.) trying to find some way to stop this from happening in the future. (trying to create a champion thats strong enough to overcome any potential second apocalypse or zodiarks reawakening)

while she's waiting she thinks about potentially escaping the second apocalypse. since the ancients didn't try that. therefore making the lopporits still on their own space ship that she sends us to, after we fight her to prove ourselves ready to tackle meteion (we explain to her about meteion and how we know about the first apocalypse. SHB could answer the knowing of the apocalypse part) the lopporits a bit confused cause they and the ship was made for escaping the apocalypse refuse to help us. but we manage to convince them to build a teleporter to our world and at least help the sharlayans finish their ship, they see how wonderful the world below is and agree to pilot the sharlayan ship to the edge of the universe.

now here is where we get funky while we were busy fighting meteion and exploring ultima thule. zodiark sensing that his chains were breaking (zenos was going to release him anyways but seeing how pitiful he was at that point decided against joining with him and returning to us and our planet. this still keeps zenos character arc) breaks free and travels towards the largest source of power he can find to finish his mission (the restoration of the ancients) so yadda yadda we fight meteion on zenos back but once we weaken her. out of nowhere zodiark rears his ugly head an absorbs the now weakened meteion transforming into his true final form. now to save meteion and prevent the resurrection of the ancients (which would destroy us anyways) we now have to fight zodiark at his legitamate full power. after we kill him once again with the help of zenos. meteions soul is released and we still have our 1v1 against zenos at the edge of the universe

we stop the potential plot holes/endless questions that time loops cause. we actually still have zodiark be the final big bad, he's actually a threat now. and while yes cliche the big bad WHO'S BEEN BUILT UP THE ENTIRE GAME MIND YOU is the final big bad. it would feel far better in terms of overall story. instead of a bird we knew pretty much nothing about except for the like half of the expansion we got with her.

[Aluja89]

That makes no sense though. Elidibus was only able to summon people because he was using the Crystal Tower's power to do so. This is specifically said during Shadowbringers. And in Endwalker he says that since he's beginning to fade he no longer has complete access to the Tower and opening the portal is pretty much the last thing he's able to do. He's never had the ability to tether people together in whatever way you're thinking of and the Echo doesn't even work that way anyway.

I never said he should summon our reflections, just tether them together for a brief moment so the echo can take effect, if he can send us back in time, he can do that as well.

I missed this earlier but then it got quoted above so I'm double-picking on you.

Elidibus says something to the effect that he isn't even fully summoning the souls of the heroes he draws to us – just, somehow, their desire to defeat evil and not the rest of them. (Best to not think too hard on the consequences of that for the rest of their soul, but hopefully Elidibus's death means that the splattered remnants of their aether gets restored to them, like the Exarch hoped his death would restore the Scions.)

There's no suggestion that he can "tether" souls to us at all, or a guarantee that he can find all the Azem pieces he would need to do so. And if he did, for all that we've seen the Echo can and cannot do, you'd still get their individual memories rather than their past life.

I hear you, but I just dislike time travel as a plot point out of nowhere. If the premise had something shouldering time travel it could be forgiven. As it stands I'm just trying to find anything conceivable and in the realm of possibilities.

However, whether there is a possibility of being connected to our other reflections or not is not the point. The echo is.

Edit: There is also Azem's crystal to use as a driving device.

[Rulakir]

Having Venat lose her memories alongside the others in Elpis and/or making the Sundering an accidental consequence of binding Zodiark would have made her come across as a lot more authentic and tragic.

They could have gone the Greek tragedy route wherein by trying to avoid the future the WoL tells her about Venat ends up inadvertently causing it, which would have kept events with the same outcome, not stripped everyone of their agency, and maintained Venat's integrity as an actual good character. I'll never understand why they went the route they did.

[KizuyaKatogami]

We don't have the completed EW yet so I dunno how fair of a comparison it is really.


I don't think that you're wrong about the issues, but a lot of these issues particularly with Job design for example aren't as simple as right or wrong and I think it's an endless struggle trying to please everyone.
I really don't think that the Healer situation is easily solved, there are a lot of different players you need to juggle at the same time.
Which often means that you won't fully please anyone.

They’ve had 6 years to fix healers. They’re able to rework dps jobs numerous times but not healers? They had 3 years to give hrothgar players hairs, they promised race exclusive hairstyles and guess what? That was all a lie and instead they get racial features cut off instead.

As for endwalker, the story is completed. They specifically said the endwalker story would be completed in 6.0 and that 6.1+ is an entirely new story as opposed to the typical expansion story ends in 6.3. It is a fair comparison and in comparison to the past expansions this expansion was absolute rubbish.

[Raoabolic]

As for endwalker, the story is completed. They specifically said the endwalker story would be completed in 6.0 and that 6.1+ is an entirely new story as opposed to the typical expansion story ends in 6.3. It is a fair comparison and in comparison to the past expansions this expansion was absolute rubbish.

What, you didn't like the brand new characters that have not even been hinted at for the last decade as the main antagonist? Also, you know that great good vs evil fight that has been building up for said decade? Here it is at long last, a lv 83 8 man fight! What do you mean you didn't like how the Goddess "sacrificed" herself (and the rest of her civilization) to start the story of ARR? Don't look into the story too much, lol. :^)

[Larirawiel]

Had they simply had her memories get wiped at the end of Elpis and thus left all of her choices untainted by knowledge of the future, it would've eliminated basically all of the reasons people took issue with how the story portrayed her. I remember you saying you'd feel like that would "cheapen" the decisions she'd made, but I feel like it would've made things much more gratifying if she had actually had to grapple with the weight of whether or not she made the right choice, as opposed to the angle of "It hurts to do this, but it's going to pay off eventually".

Sorry, but they should never let Elpis into the game like this. The problem is, since we are active in the past, there is no way to fix the causal loops without introducing new different ones. If you let Venat's memory being erased then there would never be a space ship. Because Venat would not know, that Meteion is responsible for the first final days etc. And even with this knowledge, Venat acts really stupid. I guess, the story writes must do that or they would have to retcon bigger parts of the story. And if you look more accurate on it, they have already made a big retcon. After dealing in Elpis in the past we are already in an altered reality. In ShB Emet-Selch tells us, that Hydaelyn fought with Zodiark and then she used the sundering ability and sundered everything except herself, Elidibus, Emet-Selch and Lahabrea. But in the EW story, she does not fight Zodiark. She went to the Convocation of Fourteen and said: "Loool, you all are sundered now!" And bammm, we are in an alternative universe.

Time traveling is hard. If the story writers have no clue how to do it right then they should not try it.


Cheers