Has anyone quit healing?

[ty_taurus]

And there lies your issue. I dont to much care about a dps loss dude. And I don't care if savage requires healers to dps. If there isn't a dps check (which most of the game doesn't have them) it isn't needed. Not everyone cares to play optimal and yall need to learn this. I'll take fun over optimal play any day of the week as the 2 don't go hand in hand for me. (And no that doesn't mean just hitting random skills before you say something like that).

Realistically you ain't the decider nor am I on what's the "correct" way to play a healer. Anything outside of healing itself is generally a toss up no matter how you slice it.

You may call it punishing while others have no issue. And no I'm not adding a challenge to myself by doing extra. I'm doing what I do because that's what I enjoy doing. This is the issue I have with this stuff. Alot you guys like to tell others they're wrong or playing bad if they don't like or operate the way you do with healing. I don't exactly feel that's fair

You may, feel you're spamming one button while others may not. There is no right or wrong with either of those

How optimal people are willing to play as well as if they're even interested in optimization at all is ultimately irrelevant to the issue at hand.

The content of FFXIV is largely considered to be easy to clear, especially casual content that is required for players to experience the main story. New, inexperienced, or casual gamers may have a harder time with fights, but they are in large very forgiving and allow for a lot of error. Optimization in these instances isn't even remotely required. For players who are more experienced, however, content is ultimately quite limited in how engaging it can be, but that's okay because jobs can also offer players a gameplay loop. When a highly experienced player may feel that content is too simple or too easy, their job's rotation can enable an element of engagement we call a gameplay loop.

The issue is that healers have a gameplay loop that only exists when faced with failure. You need to underperform, or have a party making mistakes in order for healers to have a gameplay loop, which creates a situation where neither the content nor the job can effectively appease midcore+ level players, and that is an objective flaw in game design. This is a result of the design team pushing healers in a direction that is in direct opposition to the gameplay flow of combat design.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

Realistically you ain't the decider nor am I on what's the "correct" way to play a healer. Anything outside of healing itself is generally a toss up no matter how you slice it.

Realistically, no, you are wrong. Actually, what's realistic and "pure" logic is a number you can put behind what you do. If you make way to much healing, for exemple, you may have a problem on playing your class because that's incorrect AND should be corrected (Taking into account that every mecanic on a boss is perfectly done without fail, and you only heal through "normal" damage). If you don't do enough DPS : How do you keep uptime ? Are you constantly casting *insert your one healer attack button here* ? Did you die ? Many things come into account.

That's only the "Math" part.

If we take the "Social" Part... Nobody should say openly that you are bad at what you do, because this is considered Harassment. Nobody as the right to tell you "How" to play right of the bat. It only depends on you to accept or not advice given by other.

Now, People pretty much have a hard time with the Healer's role. It's difficult for many people to enjoy spamming one single button to make DPS from lvl 1 to lvl 90, and the feeling goes worse if you go higher in term of difficulty. People are getting tired of giving idea that aren't taken by Square Enix who constantly just "Upgrade" the one button you use to DPS and add 2-3 healing spells.

I think what people want the most right now is a complete rework for healer, including everything : How they do DPS and how they do heal. And further more, Add a whole new identity to the jobs that need it.

[IkaraGreydancer]

I too can plug my ears and scream "NANANANANANA" when people post the objective truth, that doesn't make it not true. That's really great that you don't care about what Savage requires, the proper way to play these jobs or what healers are talking about, but are you just here to post a bunch of nonsense and treat this like your blog? Your input isn't required or necessary if you "don't care" about peoples grievances with their jobs, especially in content like Savage where you readily admit you don't care. Stay in your lane.

No need to be a dick. Savage isnt the whole of xiv nor is it even half of the game. All I said was neither of us have the be all end all say when it comes to how healers should be played. Didnt think thatd be a problematic thing to say. Didn't plug my ears ether, just gave my thoughts as is the point of these threads. But ofc, "don't agree with me so youre wrong" is all the craze here.

Oh and never said I don't care about others grievances, that's your injection (another common thing I see with some of you). I simply gave my experience with the role which you then said I'm apparently doing things wrong, in which evidence would say that's not the case but I digress. I don't Savage raid so I can't DARE say anything as it's not my lane. Not like there's whole other pieces of content or anything...

[Semirhage]

No need to be a dick. Savage isnt the whole of xiv nor is it even half of the game. All I said was neither of us have the be all end all say when it comes to how healers should be played. Didnt think thatd be a problematic thing to say. Didn't plug my ears ether, just gave my thoughts as is the point of these threads. But ofc, "don't agree with me so youre wrong" is all the craze here.

Oh and never said I don't care about others grievances, that's your injection (another common thing I see with some of you). I simply gave my experience with the role which you then said I'm apparently doing things wrong, in which evidence would say that's not the case but I digress. I don't Savage raid so I can't DARE say anything as it's not my lane. Not like there's whole other pieces of content or anything...

We spam one button over and over and over and over again even more in content outside Savage. That's the part that makes it even worse.

My downtime activity. My reward for playing the game efficiently and skillfully. Is one 30 second DoT. And one nuke spell. That ends up being cast hundreds of times in every level of content this game has to offer, and pushing close to 500 times in longer content like 24-man raids. This is bad game design. The reward for playing healers well is that boring downtime kit.

Experience varies, but that's the end state when you play healers skillfully.

[IkaraGreydancer]

We spam one button over and over and over and over again even more in content outside Savage. That's the part that makes it even worse.

My downtime activity. My reward for playing the game efficiently and skillfully. Is one 30 second DoT. And one nuke spell. That ends up being cast hundreds of times in every level of content this game has to offer, and pushing close to 500 times in longer content like 24-man raids. This is bad game design. The reward for playing healers well is that boring downtime kit.

Experience varies, but that's the end state when you play healers skillfully.

I'm not arguing that when things are optimal/going perfectly well that that's not the case. I've only ever said that hasn't been my experience in the years I've healed. That's all really. I've said before (in other threads) that healers could use some work and that I miss things like SBs SCH/AST kits. Hell even small stuff like Aero 3 (love that animation btw) would be a welcome return to whm for me. But I've also advocated for tanks to be nerfed in terms of survivability n such. Have em take more damage so the lack of dps options doesn't feel as bad to some as more healing is required. ShB did this decently with the removal of protect imo. But it didn't stick

[Nizzi]

No need to be a dick. Savage isnt the whole of xiv nor is it even half of the game. All I said was neither of us have the be all end all say when it comes to how healers should be played. Didnt think thatd be a problematic thing to say. Didn't plug my ears ether, just gave my thoughts as is the point of these threads. But ofc, "don't agree with me so youre wrong" is all the craze here.

Oh and never said I don't care about others grievances, that's your injection (another common thing I see with some of you). I simply gave my experience with the role which you then said I'm apparently doing things wrong, in which evidence would say that's not the case but I digress. I don't Savage raid so I can't DARE say anything as it's not my lane. Not like there's whole other pieces of content or anything...

What do you expect me to do when you completely ignore the objective truth that shows there is a correct way to play by saying "I don't care about Savage" and then ignoring the entire point? I'm not sure why the word "objective" brushes you the wrong way, but it is what it is. There are correct ways to play these jobs, and incorrect ways. Do I care if you play incorrectly and find it fun? Not at all, go right ahead. You cannot do that in Savage. You are forced to play correctly in Savage. That was my point that you said you "don't care if Savage requires DPS" and yet you're getting upset about people saying that healers are objectively 1 button monsters. They are. Just because you believe that we cannot objective say how healers are meant to be played, doesn't make that so. Job kits are tuned around Savage and Ultimate, so naturally how you're expected to perform there is the correct way in all content, even if you can clear suboptimally and never know it in the "casual" content. DPS jobs do not play different mechanically, tank jobs don't as well, and healers aren't a special exception.

I'm not saying you can't put shields and regens and keep everyone topped off, if that's how you have fun, go for it. I genuinely do not want you to stop being able to have fun doing that. You can't do that in Savage, but if you don't want to do it, it doesn't matter. But for those of us who do want to improve, there's a line where we can't just go back to playing incorrectly. I want to do as good as I can in any bit of content, so I DPS as much as possible in normal content. Would I love to be healing, of course! But they aren't designing the content for us to be able to do that even in the modes where you're expected to perform to the best of your abilities on how the fights want you to, because they are tuned with healers doing as much DPS as possible. This is why we complain and this is why we continually bring up the point that this will not affect people who find pressing Glare over and over to be "fun" at all, nor will it impact your ability to freestyle SGE in casual content. We just want to have the same ability to have fun in all content while trying our best that you are by playing how you want.

[Semirhage]

Just so I'm not blowing smoke, I'll take two examples from when I healed in Shadowbringers. As a preface, for this I'll exclude Assize; I nearly always use it for damage, but counting it as a damage ability unfairly ignores its heal. I'll leave it out entirely. Both examples I had well below average damage output.

First I'll do a Ruby Weapon EX clear. I didn't know the fight that well, wasn't in a fully coordinated group, gear wasn't great. I overhealed and dipped into GCD heals more than I should have. 57 of my GCDs were damage. 11 were heals.

The other is UWU. Abysmal performance, but it's fine since we cleared. I did next to zero coordinating with my cohealer to open damage windows. I was tossing out tons of overhealing just to make sure we'd survive mechanics. And yet somehow, I managed to cast Stone 4 alone 94, that's right, ninety four times. In one of the worst statistical performances I've ever done, my damage nuke still went out almost a hundred times. I look at that and realize the only place my performance has to go from there is more casts of Stone.

[IkaraGreydancer]

What do you expect me to do when you completely ignore the objective truth that shows there is a correct way to play by saying "I don't care about Savage" and then ignoring the entire point? I'm not sure why the word "objective" brushes you the wrong way, but it is what it is. There are correct ways to play these jobs, and incorrect ways. Do I care if you play incorrectly and find it fun? Not at all, go right ahead. You cannot do that in Savage. You are forced to play correctly in Savage. That was my point that you said you "don't care if Savage requires DPS" and yet you're getting upset about people saying that healers are objectively 1 button monsters. They are. Just because you believe that we cannot objective say how healers are meant to be played, doesn't make that so. Job kits are tuned around Savage and Ultimate, so naturally how you're expected to perform there is the correct way in all content, even if you can clear suboptimally and never know it in the "casual" content. DPS jobs do not play different mechanically, tank jobs don't as well, and healers aren't a special exception.

I'm not saying you can't put shields and regens and keep everyone topped off, if that's how you have fun, go for it. I genuinely do not want you to stop being able to have fun doing that. You can't do that in Savage, but if you don't want to do it, it doesn't matter. But for those of us who do want to improve, there's a line where we can't just go back to playing incorrectly. I want to do as good as I can in any bit of content, so I DPS as much as possible in normal content. Would I love to be healing, of course! But they aren't designing the content for us to be able to do that even in the modes where you're expected to perform to the best of your abilities on how the fights want you to, because they are tuned with healers doing as much DPS as possible. This is why we complain and this is why we continually bring up the point that this will not affect people who find pressing Glare over and over to be "fun" at all, nor will it impact your ability to freestyle SGE in casual content. We just want to have the same ability to have fun in all content while trying our best that you are by playing how you want.

And maybe youd have more people on board if you and others in the forums weren't asses to folks (that bit about "if you want to play wrong" being a prime example) who see and experience things differently. I personally never see folks who like healing as is be dickish to folks who hate it rn (not saying it doesn't happen, it's just far less common). If folks were TRULY playing wrong you'd see repercussions from it. What I think you're personally confusing is "playing wrong" and "playing at Savage/Ultimate standard" (which again isn't most of the games content).

Complain and make threads all you want, just don't crap on others who may disagree with you

[Semirhage]

And maybe youd have more people on board if you and others in the forums weren't asses to folks (that bit about "if you want to play wrong" being a prime example) who see and experience things differently. I personally never see folks who like healing as is be dickish to folks who hate it rn (not saying it doesn't happen, it's just far less common). If folks were TRULY playing wrong you'd see repercussions from it. What I think you're personally confusing is "playing wrong" and "playing at Savage/Ultimate standard" (which again isn't most of the games content).

Complain and make threads all you want, just don't crap on others who may disagree with you

I see Sylphies tell vets to "get out if you don't like it" all the time. Sylphies are the perfect encapsulation of exactly the awful things the FFXIV community encourages. As long as they can be smug and passive-aggressive while they display an utter lack of understanding about how this game's combat system works with fatuous statements about vets "healing poorly" to deal more damage, they're "better" than the exhausted vets telling them to actually learn something before they start making things up because they're "nicer". Where "nicer" to the FFXIV community means "more passive aggressive".

[IkaraGreydancer]

I see Sylphies tell vets to "get out if you don't like it" all the time. Sylphies are the perfect encapsulation of exactly the awful things the FFXIV community encourages. As long as they can be smug and passive-aggressive while they display an utter lack of understanding about how this game's combat system works with fatuous statements about vets "healing poorly" to deal more damage, they're "better" than the exhausted vets telling them to actually learn something before they start making things up because they're "nicer". Where "nicer" to the FFXIV community means "more passive aggressive".

That doesn't exactly change much of what im saying here. And like I said I'd never claim it doesn't happen. I just don't see it. I just know especially recently you can exactly say you like the way healers are without being crapped on by someone claiming said person sucks, have low/crap standards etc