Island Sanctuaries might not be instanced housing, simmer your hopes

[GeminiReed]

[T]his game's server architecture does not seem well-suited to open-ended instancing, as opposed to "at most X number of things in use"; their workaround seems to be that anything that is truly open-ended in terms of number of active instances has to be a solo environment that gets run largely (save for interactions with specific systems) on the client-side, rather than allocating a server-instanced environment.

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When you say "server architecture" are you referring to the hardware or the processes that make up the collection of services that our clients interact with? If it is a physical datacenter issue that's a breathtaking level of incompetence I struggle to attribute to their operations team. IMO it has something to do with the either the design or implementation of the ward system that makes it require so much physical hardware.

If Island Sanctuary is a form of instanced housing, I strongly suspect it would be one where you could decorate and garden and play around... but not invite guests over as that would require server-instanced environments. And that seems technologically feasible within this game's environment... but probably not what folks would want from "instanced housing".

As Shougun remembered it was stated in one of the Live Letters that other players can visit.

[Saraide]

I have a lot of doubts that the server architecture itself is to blame. Rather it has something to do with the either the design or implementation of the ward system that makes it require so much physical hardware. If it is a physical datacenter issue that's a breathtaking level of incompetence I struggle to attribute to their operations team.


As Shougun remembered it was stated in one of the Live Letters that other players can visit.

Well this game is essentially parading around the rotting corpse of FF11 so technical debt messing up plans is not exactly something that should be dismissed out of hand.

[Rolder50]

(edit)
When you say "server architecture" are you referring to the hardware or the processes that make up the collection of services that our clients interact with? If it is a physical datacenter issue that's a breathtaking level of incompetence I struggle to attribute to their operations team. IMO it has something to do with the either the design or implementation of the ward system that makes it require so much physical hardware.

I have a very hard time believing them whenever they say they can't do something because of engine limitations, due to the number of times they have said this and then did it later anyway. Not to mention all the instances of supposedly impossible things being accomplished by mods.

[Midareyukki]

I have a very hard time believing them whenever they say they can't do something because of engine limitations, due to the number of times they have said this and then did it later anyway. Not to mention all the instances of supposedly impossible things being accomplished by mods.

That's because an engine really is just a framework for your code to work. If you have a function that you want to implement, it may have some limitations because of how the engine is structured, sure, but it's still possibly doable. Just to give you two examples of what I mean by this:

1 - Some stuff they wanted to implement didn't manage to go through because of how their code was structured, which interfered with other functions. An example of this is the Glam Dresser in housing. When they tried it, if they attempted to edit the house's furniture while someone was using the glam dresser, the codes would interfere with one another and cause the game to freak out and crash.

Now, is this doable? It honestly is, they just need to find a way to make the Glam Dresser's menu be on a different instance than housing. Maybe a personal menu like your character profile or adventurer plate editor menu are, but only be accessed not by your standard button menu, but by clicking on the furniture. Otherwise how else would you access Armoires or Unending Journey if someone edited the house? Sure, Glam Dressers are more complex, which is probably what still causes some bugs, but ultimately the principle is the same.

2 - Take a simple game-making software like Ren'py or RPG Maker. You can make an RPG in Ren'py (though it likely won't be the prettiest thing in the universe) or a Visual Novel in RPG Maker. In fact, it's been done. The engine is just a framework to make a specific sort of game, but you can repurpose it to make other different kinds of stuff if you have the know-how.

This is why technically speaking "everything is possible" with an engine. You just need to know how to program what you want with that framework in mind. It's going to take you time and some elbow grease, you'll likely encounter some random bugs because all code does that. But that's normal, and you'll be expecting them. As you would on anything involving computer code more complex than print "Hello World".

It's why modders are capable of making mods and add-ons for stuff the dev team claims to be out of their purview or capabilities. So in theory, yes, you CAN make about anything with a gaming engine. Question is how detailed you want it, how it'll be integrated and how much time you're willing to spend on making it.

Hell, a lot of the problems with Hrothgar and Viera hairstyles\headgear has been just changing a boolean (a yes\no metadata switch), which modders have gone in and changed. But other problems and other features may very well be more complicated.

But impossible? Not at all, just takes time and for sure some effort.

[Midareyukki]

addendum for further clarification

The older engine SE had which was riddled with spaghetti code was likely a very poorly structured framework with god knows what in the same instance. I don't know if SE is still using this engine, but if they are, we know they fixed it... but a weirdly designed engine will always be hard to work with. It'd be like trying to wrestle with the world's most stubborn mule.

It's why programmers have no better satisfaction sometimes than just "alright, bring it all down, start over, but cleaner" xD
Though they'll likely tear some hairs out because it just means more work. More work, though, that's better and easier and won't be as annoying of a mule.

Though also, while the servers need compatibility with the engine you're using, the servers themselves have their own framework to work. Written in a completely different language than the one the game is written on. So unless there's a problem in the link between the server's code and the game engine, if there's a problem with the engine it won't be solved by going into the server's code itself. At least not usually.

[GeminiReed]

Well this game is essentially parading around the rotting corpse of FF11 so technical debt messing up plans is not exactly something that should be dismissed out of hand.

They've stated on several occasions that there's no 1.0 code left and what tech debt exists was due to ARR's accelerated schedule. Even by non-gaming enterprise service standards XIV stacks up well. You don't get that by letting old code rot.

I suspect the tech-debt they're wrestling with is that they've hit their scalability limit with their current architecture. I would like to think that a wholesale replacement of the ward system would be out of the question. It should not be a technical blocker to adding a completely new and far more resource efficient housing service. Assuming they go that route it would make a lot of sense for them to provide incentives to move for folks to move out of the wards.

Unfortunately it's a huge amount of work and may not fit into their budget or schedule if done all at once. The good news is that building out that infrastructure can be staged. The Island Sanctuaries feature sounds like a great way to verify they got the scalability right before moving on.

[GeminiReed]

I have a very hard time believing them whenever they say they can't do something because of engine limitations, due to the number of times they have said this and then did it later anyway. Not to mention all the instances of supposedly impossible things being accomplished by mods.

My very strong suspicion is their "can't" is code for "we couldn't get the funding greenlit".

Graphical mods are a touchy subject. I've heard the clipping excuse any number of times but I don't know how sensitive the team is to that sort of criticism. FWIW I'm firmly in the camp that those bothered by it can just not use the offending item. I'm also of the opinion that lore is a terrible excuse for denying certain QoL features.

OTOH mods may actually be doing things that either the client or server cannot support. Some possibilities are adding extra elements (nodes, bones) to the models or even extra animations. These take space not only in the conversation between client and server but also in the database. Sometimes they don't have enough room in the various indexes used to look up element properties.

[Midareyukki]

Graphical mods are a touchy subject. I've heard the clipping excuse any number of times but I don't know how sensitive the team is to that sort of criticism. FWIW I'm firmly in the camp that those bothered by it can just not use the offending item.

This honestly makes me chuckle a little. Not because it's bad that people don't like clipping. Truth be told, you'll find clipping in every game if you look hard enough. Not every bit of model will be scrutinized the same way. But too much is jarring...

But rather that they can't be mad that stuff clips when Endsinger's own hair clips through itself. It's visible the moment you set foot in the instance. Endsinger is nothing but a gigantic head with long Amano-esque hair. It's staring at you in the face.

[Saraide]

They've stated on several occasions that there's no 1.0 code left and what tech debt exists was due to ARR's accelerated schedule. Even by non-gaming enterprise service standards XIV stacks up well. You don't get that by letting old code rot.

I suspect the tech-debt they're wrestling with is that they've hit their scalability limit with their current architecture. I would like to think that a wholesale replacement of the ward system would be out of the question. It should not be a technical blocker to adding a completely new and far more resource efficient housing service. Assuming they go that route it would make a lot of sense for them to provide incentives to move for folks to move out of the wards.

Unfortunately it's a huge amount of work and may not fit into their budget or schedule if done all at once. The good news is that building out that infrastructure can be staged. The Island Sanctuaries feature sounds like a great way to verify they got the scalability right before moving on.

The game is not the rotting corpse, but it's parading it around by virtue of 1.0 being such an awful game that they had to completely remake it. That's what forced them into what you call ARR's accelerated schedule.

[Oizen]

VERMINION
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