Dynamis - Limit Breaks

[BaroLlyonesse]

I have to disagree, because it's not good evidence, especially if you take the entirety of the events at once.

Endsinger is a being of pure Dynamis. Driven by nothing but negative emotion. When you have your conversation with Meteion Prime just before the Final Day, she is of the exact same mindset. Then you bring in Them and make Elpis blooms, causing doubt. That causes her to falter and assist you. She doesn't influence the others successfully, and the fight continues. When Endsinger uses its ultimate, you LB3, and her response is 'Dynamis...?'

Endsinger doesn't have to be thinking you've used Dynamis. She could be asking why Dynamis is failing her. She's absorbed in her sense of right and determination, and the ultimate expression of her power doesn't work. This is a trope that shows up a lot in anime and fantasy, where the villain has a powerful doodad and the hero shows up and the it doesn't work because of some quality of the hero, and the bad guy has all these doubts in the doodad's power, questioning if it was ever really the all-powerful thing. If Endsinger thought it was your power, she could've questioned you ('How did... Dynamis...?'), but no, she just questions Dynamis itself.

The question 'Dynamis...?' by itself isn't evidence because it's unclear. A small diversion, as comparison: There's a creature that loves, say, pudding. And you end up fighting this pudding-loving creature. The only thing the creature knows about, cares about, is the drive for pudding. In the course of the fight, you get to the midpoint transition and have to LB3 to block its Needful Drool ultimate. Then this strange pudding creature says, 'Pudding...?' and the fight continues. Would you have come to the conclusion that the WoL's LB3 was made of pudding? That they had more pudding in them than this hungry creature? Of course not; this is a creature that pretty much only talks about the value of pudding, the power of pudding, the need for pudding, and is confounded by you not dying even though 'pudding in all-powerful'.

While a bit silly, it's fundamentally the conclusion you're reaching. Endsinger is about Dynamis. They talk, live, breathe, focus, and believe in the power of Dynamis. Then you don't die when it uses Dynamis to kill you, and says 'Dynamis...?' It's not saying you're using it specifically, it's saying that Dynamis failed it. And that's the crack in the armor that (with the Magic of Friendship) lets you defeat her.

I'm not saying that there couldn't be a connection, but it also cheapens Azem and Hydaelyn, where you're supposed to get the majority of the buff 'Breaking your limits as only a true Warrior of Light can' from, for the sake of a throwaway line by the end boss.

I rewatched the Elpis scene, and there's talk of despair, but nothing about your limits. I watched the one in Labrynthos as well. Can you help me find it?

[Lihtleita]

remember how when you were seven you thought the sun was made of gas, and now that youre older you know its actually plasma?

apply that to our understanding of limit breaks

[Absimiliard]

In the reworked Praetorium fight, you get a chance to use an LB3 Limit Break despite being in a 4-man party because, "Your fervent hope shines forth as resplendent Light, granting you strength beyond your limits!"

That's Hydaelyn giving you a mulligan. You get no such assistance against Endsinger.

[BaroLlyonesse]

remember how when you were seven you thought the sun was made of gas, and now that youre older you know its actually plasma?

apply that to our understanding of limit breaks

You mean that thing where someone presented clear and undeniable evidence supported by data that the sun, while yes is composed of gas, is in a constant state of plasma, and therefore if you were logical, you had to accept it?

If science said the sun was plasma because one scientist who knew about plasma one day looked up and said one word: 'Plasma...?' and literally nothing else, would you believe that to be evidence that it was true?

For that to apply to Limit Breaks, there has to be clear and undeniable evidence. So where is it?

EDIT: Remember, this is the game that feels it necessary to go on multiple quests to explain all kinds of game mechanics, such as primal summoning, how crystal crafting works, and the benefits of a specific river's water to clean clothes.

[Lihtleita]

For that to apply to Limit Breaks, there has to be clear and undeniable evidence. So where is it?

a being who predates the sundering, was the familiar of one of the most brilliant creative minds of that era and was the result of his experiments with dynamis

yeah i think she would know if it was dynamis, we should probably believe her (we should probably find a direct traslation of the jp scene)

its actually implied by nidana that aether and dynamis are confused a lot by eorzeans, making any mention in the lorebooks subject to that misconception.

[Cleretic]

yeah i think she would know if it was dynamis, we should probably believe her (we should probably find a direct traslation of the jp scene)

Here's the thing: it's not even a scene people read all this from, it's one line. A line that, in English, is a single word. Fortunately, I was able to track down that one line in Japanese on Youtube. And yeah, you can immediately tell both from sight and sound that it's more than one word. Now the only Japanese I know is 'I can't speak Japanese', but I did bust out Google Translate's camera translate function on it, and what it gave me was:

Now is the brilliance of dynamis...!

(Well, it thought the translation was 'dunamis', but that's because Japanese doesn't really have a direct 'Y' equivalent.)

Which... honestly, doesn't tell us anything more. It's got more words, but that doesn't really convey any more meaning. It might even suggest that the Endsinger isn't referring to what we're doing as dynamis at all, but rather pulling her 'attack call', since immediately afterwards she dunks us with the same attack again. But it's hard to be confident about that from a machine translation.

So at most, we're in the same boat we were before: she mentions dynamis in response to this one LB, but without any more information. Alternatively, it might even take THAT reading away, because she might not even be responding to us with that line at all.

It still doesn't mean that any other LB was dynamis-fuelled. And as I've said multiple times, we still have clearly non-dynamis LBs on the books anyway.

[RyuDragnier]

In some fights, the LB3 automatically charges just before you need it.

In others you may need the LB3, but it has to build up over time through its natural building mechanisms(stuff like people getting healed en masse from near death to full HP, breaking Ifrit's nails etc).

I'm of the mindset that when the LB3 builds automatically to 3 charges, that would be a sudden Dynamis reaction. The pressure of the situation teasing out your dramatic need for power, and of course, it mimics the techniques you already know, because as far as we're shown the WoL's use of Dynamis is completely unconscious.

But when it builds naturally, it's merely the techniques developed and used via Aether mainly.

This is a pretty good telling of how to tell what is and isn't dynamis when it comes to limit break building. On terms of actual limit break effects, it muddles a bit. Several LBs look like they'd easily qualify for just aether, such as GNB, MCH, or SGE. While others look like they can qualify for Dynamis, like DRK, MNK, or WHM. But in terms of the actual effects, that's going to be a pretty weird mix of Aether and Dynamis going on that we many never know the full formula for.

[Dikatis]

That's Hydaelyn giving you a mulligan. You get no such assistance against Endsinger.

In that same scene she straight up says that she does not have enough strength to shield you again. It's not "Hydaelyn lends you her power" it"s "your hope".

Nidhana also mentions dynamis/akasa as a form of exultation that lets you push past your limits when all else seems lost thanks to your hope and determination. It's allowing you to channel much more aether than you would normally be able to execute an extremely strong attack. As mentioned before, it's just putting a name to the concept of breaking your limits.

[SannaR]

Ok so about that attack. She uses it we tank LB and she gives that line. The Emdsinger then gets mad that we survived her attack with the limit break that she immediately uses the attack again wondering if we'd be able to pull another Tank LB3 out of nowhere and that's when we get shielded by the Scions through prayer and we get the boost we need. As not only a call back to the end of an Era trailer but to fighting Zeromus in FF4 where all of our friends give a message of hope while praying for the party's safety.

I think everyone is forgetting about Omega. Now sure I doubt the devs were thinking about Dynamis back then but a good part of that raid is Omega wondering why we not only keep on surviving their trials but also seem to be able to tap into some kind of hidden power reserve. You know how when it looks as though the WoL is feeling desperate and needs to break their limits. Heck they go and attack Biggs and Wedge just to not only see what we would do, but to try and force us into tapping into said hidden power source. Which is what keeps on messing up their calculations on what should be strong enough to defeat us once Omega deems us no longer needed for their tests. It confuses and vexes them so much they put the WoL into a prison that we must break out of or die in wanting to see us tap into said hidden power source. Just as it seems we're about to do either Midgardsormr breaks in and breaks the prison we're in. All the while calling Omega a dumb computer and telling us that he's going to need a long cat nap.

[TheMightyMollusk]

In that same scene she straight up says that she does not have enough strength to shield you again. It's not "Hydaelyn lends you her power" it"s "your hope".

It's both, kinda. Hydaelyn directly shields the party from the first casting of Ultima, which levels the Praetorium. Lahabrea even calls it out. We then have to power through to defeat the Ultima Weapon before it can cast again.