Dynamis - Limit Breaks

[BaroLlyonesse]

I found part of this in another thread, but no answer, and I don't think it's right.

Can anyone point to a specific line of text in the game or a live letter or interview or some official sources that states limit breaks are Dynamis-powered? Not something like 'Dynamis is emotional energy and Limit Breaks are when you get desperate/angry therefore...' because that's a bad connection, and also that not how limit breaks used to be described. They used to be 'synergy' powered, where a bunch of adventurers get together and the teamwork created limit attacks.

I can't find anything anywhere I look. Before I really buy into the idea, I'd like to see some actual reference.

[Cleretic]

The Endsinger says 'dynamis...?' in the part of the raid with the forced tank LB3.

That's it. That's all, that's the entirety of the evidence. Beyond that everyone just latched onto it as 'yeah, that sounds good'.

[Frizze]

The Endsinger says 'dynamis...?' in the part of the raid with the forced tank LB3.

That's it. That's all, that's the entirety of the evidence. Beyond that everyone just latched onto it as 'yeah, that sounds good'.

Ignoring the fact that the incident you describe is fairly GOOD evidence(you do a thing that you have always been able to do but have never defined, and the being in the universe with the most knowledge of dynamis identifies it as such), theres another bit of evidence earlier on. During your time in Elpis(i believe its the conversation where you first find the Elpis flowers) theres a bit of dialogue that implies a connection between your ability to overcome your limits and dynamis.

[Cleretic]

EDIT: To answer Rayne, shield wasn't there yet as I recall, it turned up afterwards.

Ignoring the fact that the incident you describe is fairly GOOD evidence(you do a thing that you have always been able to do but have never defined, and the being in the universe with the most knowledge of dynamis identifies it as such), theres another bit of evidence earlier on. During your time in Elpis(i believe its the conversation where you first find the Elpis flowers) theres a bit of dialogue that implies a connection between your ability to overcome your limits and dynamis.

Again: that's not actual evidence, that's just you going 'yeah, that sounds good'. We're doing a whole lot of stuff with dynamis in Ultima Thule and the Endwalker endgame, not all of it consciously, so it's not surprising that one of our usuals might be tapping into it at that point. Hell, pretty much right after that point, basically ALL of your usuals are somehow tapping into it. And the 'transcending your limits' language they use there is instead something you see in regards to solo duties, where it also tracks.

And again, there'smultiple examples of LBs that can't actually be dynamis. The Ktisis Trust LBs used by non-dynamis manipulators, a couple of our job LB3s like Machinist (the Satellite Laser is clearly manipulated like just another part of your kit, this isn't Gurren Lagann where you can manifest robots out of fighting spirit), and even the Warrior of Light in Seat of Sacrifice is clearly using LBs while being incapable of using dynamis. So we've got evidence that just because that one LB3 probably was dynamis-fuelled, it doesn't mean all LBs are dynamis-fuelled. Which is fine, because dynamis doesn't have to be a one-size-fits-all thing. Maybe Satellite Laser is a sometimes food because it's difficult to field. Maybe Elidibus uses aether to crack out LBs because he knows that Heroes Use LBs and found his own way to do it. Maybe the Ktisis Trusts hold back their big swings because they're all drama queens that hold back their full power until it's dramatically appropriate (this one I'm certain of).

So yeah. At least one LB is a dynamis thing, and at least a few LBs definitely aren't. Which works, because that means dynamis exists as an explanation without being the only one. For writers in the setting--both official and fan--that's a pretty good space to be in, because it means that it can be an option if they want it to be, but it isn't forced to be your only one.

Which is good, because Machinist has the best LB3.

[BaroLlyonesse]

I have to disagree, because it's not good evidence, especially if you take the entirety of the events at once.

Endsinger is a being of pure Dynamis. Driven by nothing but negative emotion. When you have your conversation with Meteion Prime just before the Final Day, she is of the exact same mindset. Then you bring in Them and make Elpis blooms, causing doubt. That causes her to falter and assist you. She doesn't influence the others successfully, and the fight continues. When Endsinger uses its ultimate, you LB3, and her response is 'Dynamis...?'

Endsinger doesn't have to be thinking you've used Dynamis. She could be asking why Dynamis is failing her. She's absorbed in her sense of right and determination, and the ultimate expression of her power doesn't work. This is a trope that shows up a lot in anime and fantasy, where the villain has a powerful doodad and the hero shows up and the it doesn't work because of some quality of the hero, and the bad guy has all these doubts in the doodad's power, questioning if it was ever really the all-powerful thing. If Endsinger thought it was your power, she could've questioned you ('How did... Dynamis...?'), but no, she just questions Dynamis itself.

The question 'Dynamis...?' by itself isn't evidence because it's unclear. A small diversion, as comparison: There's a creature that loves, say, pudding. And you end up fighting this pudding-loving creature. The only thing the creature knows about, cares about, is the drive for pudding. In the course of the fight, you get to the midpoint transition and have to LB3 to block its Needful Drool ultimate. Then this strange pudding creature says, 'Pudding...?' and the fight continues. Would you have come to the conclusion that the WoL's LB3 was made of pudding? That they had more pudding in them than this hungry creature? Of course not; this is a creature that pretty much only talks about the value of pudding, the power of pudding, the need for pudding, and is confounded by you not dying even though 'pudding in all-powerful'.

While a bit silly, it's fundamentally the conclusion you're reaching. Endsinger is about Dynamis. They talk, live, breathe, focus, and believe in the power of Dynamis. Then you don't die when it uses Dynamis to kill you, and says 'Dynamis...?' It's not saying you're using it specifically, it's saying that Dynamis failed it. And that's the crack in the armor that (with the Magic of Friendship) lets you defeat her.

I'm not saying that there couldn't be a connection, but it also cheapens Azem and Hydaelyn, where you're supposed to get the majority of the buff 'Breaking your limits as only a true Warrior of Light can' from, for the sake of a throwaway line by the end boss.

I rewatched the Elpis scene, and there's talk of despair, but nothing about your limits. I watched the one in Labrynthos as well. Can you help me find it?

[Dikatis]

When you battle the Endsinger at the end of Endwalker, you need to use an LB3 Tank Limit Break to survive her ultimate attack. When you do, the Endsinger goes, "Dynamis!?"

In the reworked Praetorium fight, you get a chance to use an LB3 Limit Break despite being in a 4-man party because, "Your fervent hope shines forth as resplendent Light, granting you strength beyond your limits!"

WoL's deterimination and hope for a better future allowed them to use an LB3 Limit Break in a scenario when it would otherwise be impossible.

[Absimiliard]

In the reworked Praetorium fight, you get a chance to use an LB3 Limit Break despite being in a 4-man party because, "Your fervent hope shines forth as resplendent Light, granting you strength beyond your limits!"

That's Hydaelyn giving you a mulligan. You get no such assistance against Endsinger.

[Dikatis]

That's Hydaelyn giving you a mulligan. You get no such assistance against Endsinger.

In that same scene she straight up says that she does not have enough strength to shield you again. It's not "Hydaelyn lends you her power" it"s "your hope".

Nidhana also mentions dynamis/akasa as a form of exultation that lets you push past your limits when all else seems lost thanks to your hope and determination. It's allowing you to channel much more aether than you would normally be able to execute an extremely strong attack. As mentioned before, it's just putting a name to the concept of breaking your limits.

[TheMightyMollusk]

In that same scene she straight up says that she does not have enough strength to shield you again. It's not "Hydaelyn lends you her power" it"s "your hope".

It's both, kinda. Hydaelyn directly shields the party from the first casting of Ultima, which levels the Praetorium. Lahabrea even calls it out. We then have to power through to defeat the Ultima Weapon before it can cast again.

[BaroLlyonesse]

Nidhana also mentions dynamis/akasa as a form of exultation that lets you push past your limits when all else seems lost thanks to your hope and determination. It's allowing you to channel much more aether than you would normally be able to execute an extremely strong attack. As mentioned before, it's just putting a name to the concept of breaking your limits.

One, the status condition 'Breaking your limits as only a true Warrior of Light can' (or something like that) I can concede a little on. However, we also 'break our limits' when we're summoning allies in Seat of Sacrifice, right? Elidibus says it's an 'invocation of eld, though not of Hydaelyn's making. What are you?' We're drawing from the power of Azem in that scene, with our own desire fueling it. That's not necessarily Dynamis either, right? It's aether, because that's what the Ancients used, and therefore impossible to be Dynamis (as we have no lore support for Azem using Dynamis). In the final fight with Zenos, we literally burn our soul, which could be Dynamis, but we can't limit break, and that would be stupid useful in that fight. But Zenos can, or appears to, powered by his voidsent which is an aether construct.

Two, I kind of see a link where you use your Dynamis to channel Aether, it makes a little more sense. But that opens an entire mess of issues itself. When we cast thaumaturgy spells, do we use Dynamis? Conjury? Summoning a Fat Cat minion is pulling the minion out of the Void... is that Dynamis or Aether?

EDIT: The rationale for breaking your limits in the Seat of Sacrifice is, the only times we could really be considered to be doing that is what we do something outside of the mechanics or lore of the game. That's when we do something beyond the mortal ability, powers no one else has.