It's been 34 days since 6.1 and SAM still feels like garbage to play

[cjbeagle]

Kenki expenditure has little consequence now, only needing to be mindful of it when Senei is off CD.

Senei is on the same cooldown as Ikishoten, so there's really no need to be mindful ever.

I've started playing samurai again too because despite it being a shadow of its former self, it's still more enjoyable than the alternatives it seems. Hilariously, a big part of that for me is because of Third Eye, which itself is a shadow of its former self since losing Seigan. ~_~

[Gemina]

Senei is on the same cooldown as Ikishoten, so there's really no need to be mindful ever.

Oh, you can leave it to me to still find a way to screw it up xD

I still use third eye for the damage reduction. We can essentially counter with yet another Shinten, but it's just not the same. I'll stick with my recommendation of bringing back Seigan, and just having the Third Eye skill turn into when the barrier is struck.

[xAFROx]

I've always wondered why Shinten didn't turn into Seigan while under Open Eyes. It always baffled me that they were separate buttons.

Never quite understood why Third Eye never changed to Merciful Eyes while under Open Eyes. That didn't make much sense either.

Kenki generation would still matter a bit if our spenders actually kept the different costs like in ShB. But with the current cooldown of both Senei and Ikishoten, the only real thing to do is to not over cap, which is really easy now because there's no reason to pool kenki anymore.

Here's hoping they go back towards 6.08 SAM and if we're lucky, ShB SAM. I want Seigan back, it was a fun reward for mitigating raidwides.

[cjbeagle]

I've always wondered why Shinten didn't turn into Seigan while under Open Eyes. It always baffled me that they were separate buttons.

Never quite understood why Third Eye never changed to Merciful Eyes while under Open Eyes. That didn't make much sense either.

Kenki generation would still matter a bit if our spenders actually kept the different costs like in ShB. But with the current cooldown of both Senei and Ikishoten, the only real thing to do is to not over cap, which is really easy now because there's no reason to pool kenki anymore.

Here's hoping they go back towards 6.08 SAM and if we're lucky, ShB SAM. I want Seigan back, it was a fun reward for mitigating raidwides.

Personally, I don't miss Merciful Eyes at all - just have Third Eye evolve into Seigan upon successful mitigation and I'd be happy.

With Senei/Guren having the same cooldown as Ikishoten and the same kenki cost as Shinten/Kyuten, they could just make Ikishoten upgrade the next Shinten/Kyuten into Senei/Guren too - would trim 2 buttons - then maybe they could bring back Kaiten since we wouldn't have as many buttons anymore. =3

[Gemina]

I completely agree. Ikishoten could easily be an evolving skill that upgrades existing abilities, especially if skills like Guren and Senei are going to remain kenki spenders, which is something I've always disliked due to the 120s CD. If button bloat is truly the issue for the loss of Kaiten, it would have made FAR more sense to do this with Guren/Senei instead. Shoha could also upgrade to Shoha 2 to save yet another button.

So many ways to circumvent the button bloat issue using the very same concepts they are currently implementing with their job design. I really hope they revert SAM, and use these suggestions that most of us seem to agree on.

[xAFROx]

Oh, definitely. I just like the idea of having everything they took away given back is all. Merciful Eyes would've been fine if it healed a decent amount, but as it was, it was pathetic. Maybe if it was about the same as Second Wind, at least, that would make it have something to do. But I agree that Senei/Guren, as they currently exist, should just be procs over Shinten/Kyuten through Ikishoten.

So many has already been said on those ideas, though, so I won't reiterate all of that.

The only iffy thing to make a solution for would be Shoha and Shoha 2. It could just as easily be a targeted aoe with falloff as so many other skills already are. But there's also the potential for Meditation to be expanded on, thus it could either have it's own dedicated evolving button like iaijutsu, or it could just as easily change Shinten/Kyuten as a base for our redundant skills of single target vs aoe.

[Ruminous]

Oh, definitely. I just like the idea of having everything they took away given back is all. Merciful Eyes would've been fine if it healed a decent amount, but as it was, it was pathetic. Maybe if it was about the same as Second Wind, at least, that would make it have something to do. But I agree that Senei/Guren, as they currently exist, should just be procs over Shinten/Kyuten through Ikishoten.

So many has already been said on those ideas, though, so I won't reiterate all of that.

The only iffy thing to make a solution for would be Shoha and Shoha 2. It could just as easily be a targeted aoe with falloff as so many other skills already are. But there's also the potential for Meditation to be expanded on, thus it could either have it's own dedicated evolving button like iaijutsu, or it could just as easily change Shinten/Kyuten as a base for our redundant skills of single target vs aoe.

Merciful eyes used to act as a threat management tool, but when they changed how threat worked in Shadowbringers, it sort of made merciful eyes redundant. Would've been nice to keep it as a heal that...Actually healed, or did something else that'd make you think between seigan and eyes....I'm not quite sure what that would be, though.

Meditate's the one skill they definitely could prune and no one would really bat an eye. For a 'pinnacle' skill, it's not useful in most play in its current iteration. In FFXI, meditate gave you TP to generate for skillchains, which samurais could do solo. I'd think making it generate shoha charges over time would be nice...But there likely is something more inventive they could do with it other than "cease action and get kenki/shoha".

[cjbeagle]

or did something else that'd make you think between seigan and eyes....

How about if it was a choice between Seigan and refreshing Higanbana? Both dps options, but the ideal choice would vary throughout the fight.

[Ruminous]

How about if it was a choice between Seigan and refreshing Higanbana? Both dps options, but the ideal choice would vary throughout the fight.

Kind of like the idea but it being tied to third eye kind of makes it a bit weird depending on when raidbusters happen during a fight. In dungeons it might not even be as useful either. Maybe between shoha focus or kenki? But they kind of made kenki a useless thing now, so that probably wouldn't work.

[cjbeagle]

but it being tied to third eye kind of makes it a bit weird depending on when raidbusters happen during a fight.

That's what I like about it - priority between it and Seigan would vary naturally based on how long you have left on your dot, but would also vary from fight to fight based on boss AOE and downtime - easy to use, hard to optimize.

That said, I'd also like to see Third Eye changed to only grant the proc if the attack that triggered it didn't also give a vulnerability stack so you wouldn't have to worry about people standing in fire on purpose just to get a powerful proc.