How did we not realize this about the man made echo?

[Zero-ELEC]

I don't get how things contradict one another: the blessing of light protects against tampering of aether through the flooding of a particular aspect. The echo allows the user to transcend "mortal" limits and force a contest of wills against summoned Primals, allowing the wielder to not get tempered/drowned/etc.

Put another way: the echo makes it so that you can protect yourself and others (presumably, given how the WoL, Arenvald and Fordola protect the leaders of the new Ala Mhigo) from tempering but it is theoretically not absolute. Meanwhile, the blessing of light is absolute (as long as the blessing holds) and can be super powered (say by Hydaelyn's intervention or through the use of the aether of the Light Wardens) to fully protect the user.

[DPZ2]

After all we learn those two things are separate. And that it's the blessing of light that allows us to fight primals. Why else would sending Fordola fight primals work? Or Zenos fusing himself with Shinriyu?

Fordola and Arenvald can fight primals without being tempered because of the Echo. I do not remember coming across anything about the Blessing of Light for either of them.

The two things may be separate, but it is NOT the blessing of light that allows us to fight primals without tempering, it is the Echo.

The blessing of light prevented our deaths when Ultima was released (rather directly).

Thordan's aetherical dust is exactly the same sort of thing as the defeat of any other primal: the aether dissipates. He had neither the Echo nor the blessing of light.

[SannaR]

Fordola and Arenvald can fight primals without being tempered because of the Echo. I do not remember coming across anything about the Blessing of Light for either of them.

The two things may be separate, but it is NOT the blessing of light that allows us to fight primals without tempering, it is the Echo.

The blessing of light prevented our deaths when Ultima was released (rather directly).

Thordan's aetherical dust is exactly the same sort of thing as the defeat of any other primal: the aether dissipates. He had neither the Echo nor the blessing of light.

I didn't say Thoridan had one. Just that he wasn't able to survive being defeated as one vs Yasale. Except for within DRU where even after beating him twice does he still have enough aether due to how much power absorbing he does in that AU to keep his form. Yet Venat says in the quest Travelers at the Crossroads "A traveler's ward, of course. It prevents corruption of one's aether." You can then ask her if it protects you from enthrallment by primals, by any chance which she says "... Primals? I'm not familiar with such beings, but if they "enthrall" by warping the balance of aether, then yes - the magic would afford you a measure of protection." The other option just has her say that it's made by her and that we seem to be aware of it's presence.

[Baxcel]

Y'all should replay ARR... the way the Blessing of Light comes up in the battles against Ultima Weapon and Lahabrea now is pretty insane compared to what it had been originally.

She actively uses it to channel her Light through us and stop Primal super attacks/break Titan Gaols.

She also uses it to spark LB3 gauge fill against the Ultima cast.

Against Lahabrea she revives us from unconsciousness and essentially gives us Super Saiyan Blue aura complete with 60% HP increase, movement speed increase, and ATP increase. It's a bit more than a "traveler's ward" if you ask me...

Iirc in Japanese, The Echo is referred to as, "Transcendent Power." A tad less mysterious.

Now, I see it pretty much as being, Blessing of Light = Hydaelyn Superpower access.

Echo = Transcendent Soul Potential and ability to hear Hydaelyn. Note that the Echo itself has actually been shown to be able to do things that the BoL has not, such as see the future.

The BoL is only given to Echo individuals, because they have the greatest potential and nearly incorruptible aether already. Pretty sure the BoL is just confused with the Echo by the cast, and they're never not gonna write it that way.

Resonance copies the Echo, and the procedure could copy the BoL too because it's just copying the aetheric waveform of the master subject. You'd likely need even more people to fuel such a thing, though (and somehow trap the active state of it given to you by Hydaelyn).

Anyroad, The Echo has to be what's responsible for resisting Primals, due to the whole first Heavensward arc where the BoL is sealed by Midgardsormr, but also due to Bozja wherein Mikoto's Echo is Resonance copied onto Misjia.

I may be miss-rembering but did our first encounter with Ifirt tell us it was the blessing that gave us Immunity? The Echo allowed us understanding of his speech and fortified our resistance but he clearly pointed out the "touch" of another upon our person being the primary reason we resisted his tempering?

[KageTokage]

It's Garuda who mentions that we've been "touched" by Hydaelyn.

Ifrit states that he does not sense the taint of another upon us to refute his priest's claim that we must've been tempered by something else already, then concludes we must be of the "godless blessed's number".

Both Ifrit and Leviathan also mention the blessing of light specifically but cite it more as the reason why we were able to best them simply by virtue of how abnormally strong we are compared to the average mortal.

I suppose in that sense it's an additive retcon because we always knew it afforded some manner of protection, but they refrained from being specific about it until EW.

[KizuyaKatogami]

They are right though, we don't need this in EVERY thread, especially when the arguments have been done to death.

Blame the writing, not the players calling it out for what it is. AKA bs.

[Nav_Fae]

Fordola and Arenvald can fight primals without being tempered because of the Echo. I do not remember coming across anything about the Blessing of Light for either of them.

The two things may be separate, but it is NOT the blessing of light that allows us to fight primals without tempering, it is the Echo.

The blessing of light prevented our deaths when Ultima was released (rather directly).

Thordan's aetherical dust is exactly the same sort of thing as the defeat of any other primal: the aether dissipates. He had neither the Echo nor the blessing of light.

Pretty sure Vanat in Elpis mentioned that the "Traveler's Ward" the real name of the Blessing of Light, was a spell she used to prevent the corruption of one's Aether. The player even get a dialogue option ask if that's what protects them from Primal Tempering and if selected, Vanat says she doesn't know what a Primal is.

[Lyth]

I think the easiest way to make sense of this is to have a look at Owen's report on the subject, back in Shadowbringers.

This report seeks to provide an overview of the mechanism by which eikons corrupt and bind men to their will. The phenomenon we call “corruption” refers to the alteration of the aether of the soul. Said aether ordinarily exists in equilibrium; no one element being more prominent than another.

But when a subject is exposed to the aether of an eikon, this changes, their soul taking on the properties of the entity in question. By way of an example, exposure to the aether of the Fiend, Sephirot, would cause a subject's aether to become aligned with the element of earth. As a consequence, the subject would attain heightened affinity with earth-aspected magicks, as well as preternatural levels of endurance. Repeated exposure would further enhance these traits, ultimately altering the subject's very flesh.

The changes undergone by the subject are not solely attributable to elemental alignment, however. Further testing has determined that the subject's soul becomes umbrally charged, or stagnant during the process. This stagnation of the soul has the effect of diluting the sense of self, rendering the subject vulnerable to the will of the eikon, the thoughts of whom come to consume their entire existence. In this manner do the corrupted become worshipers of the eikon, their prayers serving to further empower the entity.

Having discerned the mechanism of eikonic corruption, my colleagues and I set out to develop a material capable of shielding one from its effects. An endeavor in which we were successful, albeit it at great cost... In the course of testing, many of my assistants ─ good men and women all ─ fell victim to corruption. And in accordance with protocol, they were summarily put to death.

I subsequently submitted a proposal to investigate potential cures for corruption, but it was rejected ─ deemed “nonessential” by Lord Amon. Though I knew it would be fruitless, I protested the decision. And for my impertinence, I have been stripped of rank and title, and will shortly be expelled from this facility. In all likelihood, this report will be expunged from the archives. Nonetheless, I record it in the hope that one day, someone will undertake to do that which I could not, and find a cure for the victims of eikonic corruption. End recording.

Fandaniel/Amon even goes so far as to bring up the report himself in Endwalker, to help jog your memory about it.

'I come all this way to admire one of my splendid towers, and what do I find? Fools attempting to ward off its tempering influence with magic trinkets. I seem to recall a similar experiment in ages past. What was that man's name...? “O” something... Oween?'

I think that Ryu's explanation from earlier in the thread is the best one. Tempering itself is not an all-or-nothing phenomenon. It's a bit like radiation exposure, with dose dependent effects ranging from enthrallment to transformation. You can have protective factors, like the Echo, Resonant, or the Blessing of Light at your disposal to help reduce the absorbed dose. I wonder of soul density plays a part as well, because there's more soul and more memories that you need to corrupt first to override the individual's sense of self.

Likewise, Venat also mentions that her 'traveller's charm' only partially protects you from the effect:

'...Primals, you say? I'm not familiar with such beings, but if they 'enthrall' by warping the balance of the aether, then yes - the magick would offer you a measure of protection.'

I'm sure that we'll see more discussion on the subject leading in to Meracydia and the Void.

[Vyrerus]

I still love how people seem to misunderstand how the Blessing of Light and Echo work when it comes to Tempering protection. Think of them as mitigation tools.

The Echo is the 20% mitigation tool of Rampart, the Blessing of Light is more like the unique 30% mitigation moves (Sentinel, Shadow Wall, Vengeance, Nebula).

People with just the Echo are protected. People with the Blessing of Light get that stacked on top of it, so they are protected MORE. There is no retcon when it comes to how the Blessing of Light works when it comes to protection against Tempering.

There's never been a scene though where it's just mitigation though.

Like there's never a scene where the Echo or the Resonance just fail to ward the tempering. In this regard, at least in what is shown and not told, they are more like tank invulnerabilities. Particularly Hallowed Ground or Superbolide. There has been no clear distinction how the strength of protection offered by the Blessing or the Echo or the Resonance is all I'm saying.

So far the only subtle hint we've had towards corruption becoming a thing for the cast in spite of shielding is that the Warding Scale in the Nixie actually had its quality reduced due to scratches on its physical casing, but even with that minor damage it still protected the Nixie completely.

[Lyth]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. One reason to critically look at the lore is to try and gauge what's coming next. Who knows, maybe those Warding Scales will double up as radiation film badges/corruption dosimeters, and we'll rotate out Scions who have been exposed to too much corruption recently. What if the Criterion Dungeons, the first of which is scheduled for around 6.2 on the roadmap, are sitting in the Void, and Eikonic Corruption is a scalable difficulty factor?