Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Dahlinea]

Going by FFlogs, SMN right now has the second most uploaded amount of parses in the current savage iteration, only behind RPR which is pretty much EW's new flavour, so I don't know if people are as unhappy with the SMN as the regulars in this thread are presenting it.

Just because it's the job that has the most parses doesn't mean it's well designed. BLM is a well designed job and it's in the low end of the parse counter.

Current SMN has no core mechanics, doesn't have downsides to its braindead rotation and does high damage regardless. Of course it's going to be played a lot.

[Gallus]

Just because it's the job that has the most parses doesn't mean it's well designed. BLM is a well designed job and it's in the low end of the parse counter.

Current SMN has no core mechanics, doesn't have downsides to its braindead rotation and does high damage regardless. Of course it's going to be played a lot.

Tbh being so aggressive about it doesn't help your cause because it makes you look very biased. You can call it braindead as much as you want but there are players like me that genuinely enjoy the new SMN, and reading some of the comments you guys almost make it like one should be ashamed of such thing, it's ridiculous.

But on topic... what do you propose we take into account to measure whether people are happy with the new SMN or not? I used the FFlogs savage parsing because to me, it looked like it could be at the very least, slightly indicative? What should we go by instead? Because "There are a lot of people that are unhappy with the new SMN" sort of comments doesn't sound like it could be used to make an accurate representation of peoples' satisfaction with the new SMN right? And all I see in this thread are the same couple dozen users bumping each other for the same cause.

Now, you have every right to not like the new SMN, but for instance, I had to swallow ARR, HW, SB and ShB iterations of SMN and to me they were absolutely unedible, and in none of those I remember myself making this much noise, and I disliked the old SMN with passion and thematically it's my favorite job.

Say 75% of the job like the new SMN, but 25% dislike it a lot. What's the solution here?

[Dahlinea]

Tbh being so aggressive about it doesn't help your cause because it makes you look very biased. You can call it braindead as much as you want but there are players like me that genuinely enjoy the new SMN, and reading some of the comments you guys almost make it like one should be ashamed of such thing, it's ridiculous.

I'm not being aggressive, that's what the job is right now. You like it and that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact the job is way too basic, to the point it plays the same as in level 60 with just one more button to press and that new skill doesn't even affect your rotation.

Now, you have every right to not like the new SMN, but for instance, I had to swallow ARR, HW, SB and ShB iterations of SMN and to me they were absolutely unedible, and in none of those I remember myself making this much noise, and I disliked the old SMN with passion and thematically it's my favorite job.

Maybe the noise isn't because we liked the old SMN and hate the new one but because the rework took a lot of skills from the job and didn't give much back to us? The rework feels incomplete, rushed, and that can be seen clearly when you level the job from the beginning.
I don't need the old SMN back but I want a SMN that can reward you for playing it right, with options that really make a difference, and not just some different colors that you will press regardless and will always produce the same result in a general scenario.

[Nizzi]

I don't really have any skin in the game but one of the things I don't like about how SMN was handled is the fact that there's nothing for old SMN players to enjoy like their old job. They effectively killed a play style that many enjoyed and loved for years. Arguments about aesthetics aside, just look at gameplay.
If you enjoyed the DoT management gameplay of SMN... there's nothing in the game like that anymore. SCH had its DoTs removed in ShB, so if you liked Arcanist because of the DoT aspect... SE says "sorry, you're out of luck. Hope you enjoyed it for the many years prior, though!" Not even BRD is a DoT centered job anymore. There's nothing left.
If you enjoyed the pet management gameplay of SMN... there's Scholar, I guess, but that's healing, and not DPSing. SCH also doesn't "manage" the fairy really, due to healing optimization and DPS optimization being entirely different ball games.
What are people who enjoyed their old job supposed to do? They can't swap to SCH anymore for DoT gameplay, they can't play any other DPS for DoT gameplay or pet management. Are they just supposed to suck it up and kick rocks because now SE says it's someone else's turn to enjoy SMN?

And before you say "well they're probably going to add a DoT job/a job like old SMN soon," the direction of this game shows that they're absolutely not going to. They should've reworked SMN while retaining the aspects that SMN players enjoyed about it while also cutting out the things that were bad, but instead they gave it a level 60 stagnant rotation at level 90 with an admittedly nice coat of paint.

[Kulve]

Tbh being so aggressive about it doesn't help your cause because it makes you look very biased. You can call it braindead as much as you want but there are players like me that genuinely enjoy the new SMN, and reading some of the comments you guys almost make it like one should be ashamed of such thing, it's ridiculous.

But on topic... what do you propose we take into account to measure whether people are happy with the new SMN or not? I used the FFlogs savage parsing because to me, it looked like it could be at the very least, slightly indicative? What should we go by instead? Because "There are a lot of people that are unhappy with the new SMN" sort of comments doesn't sound like it could be used to make an accurate representation of peoples' satisfaction with the new SMN right? And all I see in this thread are the same couple dozen users bumping each other for the same cause.

Now, you have every right to not like the new SMN, but for instance, I had to swallow ARR, HW, SB and ShB iterations of SMN and to me they were absolutely unedible, and in none of those I remember myself making this much noise, and I disliked the old SMN with passion and thematically it's my favorite job.

Say 75% of the job like the new SMN, but 25% dislike it a lot. What's the solution here?

This is taking numbers out of context to almost alarming degree. The numbers currently on logs that you're looking at shows SMN at around 47k, RDM at 40k and BLM 26k. We can interpret it as this; Casters with Res are the preferred choice in the caster slot. SMN is also the least resistant for being so simple and a literal PhysRanged job compared to RDM so less to think about. You're also using these numbers to interpret each individual player parsed as SMN is of the same opinion of you. You can't read a number from a parse site and say "This may people love/dislike it" because that's not the statistics of a parsing site. Also, pulling the numbers 75% and 25% is disingenuous to a controversial rework that's already 5 months old where I've observed split in current discussions among those that like/dislike, while also still seeing those that say they like the rework but not satisfied with how incomplete it feels.

I imagine we will get a dot mage to replace old SMN come next expansion or so, it seems unlike the devs to just remove a playstyle from the game, especially one that tends to be a staple in MMOs overall.

They have been slowly removing Dots and they've made it a point that in content where 48+ players interact (Eureka, Bozja, Baldesion Arsenal) that there is a debuff limit that has caused issues. Dot mage is highly unlikely and would not hold my breath for one (not that I cared for dots). Also why remove a job of being a dot mage to create one 2 or 4 years later? This goes back to telling those players to just kick rocks.