What jobs do you consider well designed?

[Vatom]

Rpr SmN that’s all I think

[Jeeqbit]

I would really like classes to have more engagement with their gauges. Some do this well, but others it feels like the gauge functions as a fake CD for the one maybe two skills that are tied to it. Examples are Bards soul gauge, War gauge, Drk gauge, Plds gauge, Dnc gauge, Mch gauges, and with the recent changes Sams gauge.

I do agree that a gauge should be managed, at least. I agree about Bard's soul gauge, although the soul gauge does allow you to use it early when there is a phase transition. I don't agree about the others. DRK has to save 3,000 MP for TBN so there is a degree of management here (braindead as it may become when you are used to it) and the other gauges create the same effect as charges which allow you to overcap when you are distracted and that is still a form of management. Is this management easy? Yes, because the direction has been to make them easy to play so that a new player doesn't think it's too complicated.

The biggest problem with Samurai's is just how often you have to press the same button. No other gauge makes you spend that often but at least Kaiten allowed you to spend half of it on something else so that Shinten wasn't pressed quite as much.

Outside of that some of the stuff I miss is like tank emnity management, which is more of a system mechanic not really a class mechanic. Emnity management, and shirk made me quit tanking.

Enmity management was already easy. I would turn off tank stance after 1 enmity combo in Heavensward. I enjoyed this part of tanking as well, but I have to be fair, it was a difficult concept to explain to a new player. Tanking is not a universal concept like damage dealing is, so making tanks into damage dealers that hold the boss makes them a lot more intuitive to someone who has not played a holy trinity game.

How is Scholar on this list then?

Under pressure of a large pull, I burn through a rotation of all of scholar's abilities. I see scholars discussing how to time their abilities better in raids or position their pets so I see a lot of scholars grow. Seeing these things makes me feel that it's well-designed and leaves room for growth. I would be honest and say I don't ever use Deployment Tactics though.

[AziraSyuren]

From a purely objective standpoint, probably the tanks. While there are some oddities here and there (PLD and WAR's strained relationship with raid buffs, GNB's burst windows being too busy to actually move the boss, to name two big ones), they all still do what they need to do and are distinct enough in their offensive toolkits to not be interchangeable. And in higher end content, their defensive toolkits aren't interchangable either.

[aloneatsea]

Black Mage. Looking at things like Non-Standard rotations is a fantastical example of a class that flows well, and has an incredibly high skill ceiling. I would've said the same for pre-6.1 Samurai, too.

Shadowbringers Ninja was well-designed for a different reason. It didn't have the scaling skill ceiling that BLM and SAM had, but it flowed incredibly well and felt incredibly impactful. With a few tweaks, pre-6.1 EW Ninja could have been the same, but the job feels pretty wretched right now. Not every job needs to deal as much personal damage as Samurai.

[Nizzi]

Under pressure of a large pull, I burn through a rotation of all of scholar's abilities. I see scholars discussing how to time their abilities better in raids or position their pets so I see a lot of scholars grow. Seeing these things makes me feel that it's well-designed and leaves room for growth. I would be honest and say I don't ever use Deployment Tactics though.

None of these are unique to Scholar though, except positioning your faerie I suppose, but none of that really has anything to do with your claim that it's "well-designed because they don't have useless and clunky abilities like in Heavensward". How are Fey Union, Dissipation, Seraph, and Fey Blessing not clunky abilities? How is Ruin II not a useless ability? How is having two buttons for different faerie skins not the definition of useless abilities? No offense, but you've just listed things that are healer role specific, and not specific to Scholar.

[IdowhatIwant]

I do agree that a gauge should be managed, at least. I agree about Bard's soul gauge, although the soul gauge does allow you to use it early when there is a phase transition. I don't agree about the others. DRK has to save 3,000 MP for TBN so there is a degree of management here (braindead as it may become when you are used to it) and the other gauges create the same effect as charges which allow you to overcap when you are distracted and that is still a form of management. Is this management easy? Yes, because the direction has been to make them easy to play so that a new player doesn't think it's too complicated.

The biggest problem with Samurai's is just how often you have to press the same button. No other gauge makes you spend that often but at least Kaiten allowed you to spend half of it on something else so that Shinten wasn't pressed quite as much.

Enmity management was already easy. I would turn off tank stance after 1 enmity combo in Heavensward. I enjoyed this part of tanking as well, but I have to be fair, it was a difficult concept to explain to a new player. Tanking is not a universal concept like damage dealing is, so making tanks into damage dealers that hold the boss makes them a lot more intuitive to someone who has not played a holy trinity game.

I think it would be pretty cool for like paladin for example, to have some super holy spell that uses 100 or maybe 50, to give you that sort of thing were you have an option to sacrifice defense for offense. The new DRK cd from EW would be a good example to add to the gauge and would give it that sort of interaction. It would be cool is DNC espirite could be used for a extra damage buff to the party or dance partner to let you sacrifice your personal dps to boost some one else. I think these would be kinda of fun options to play around with, granted there would always be a optimal choice, and most would always take dps over other stuff but I think it would make the gauge a bit more engaging.

Yeah unfortunately HW emnity management got a bit stupid where 1 threat rotation did the trick, but they could have fixed it instead of dropping it all together. I get people not understanding the holy trinity, how ever that is what 90 levels of MSQ should be for is to help you learn that, which it needs work on teaching players.

None of these are unique to Scholar though, except positioning your faerie I suppose, but none of that really has anything to do with your claim that it's "well-designed because they don't have useless and clunky abilities like in Heavensward". How are Fey Union, Dissipation, Seraph, and Fey Blessing not clunky abilities? How is Ruin II not a useless ability? How is having two buttons for different faerie skins not the definition of useless abilities?

Yeah, don't the faeries do the same thing now? That is a bit disappointing if is just a skin swap.

[Corbeau]

The answer is Black Mage, and it always will be because YoshiP actually plays it.

[Klytania]

They're all equally braindead for 99% of the content so it's really just splitting hairs to complain about them.

Recently Samurai has gotten attention because they removed an ability, and now it's like the sky is falling. I don't get it.

[Jeeqbit]

None of these are unique to Scholar though, except positioning your faerie I suppose, but none of that really has anything to do with your claim that it's "well-designed because they don't have useless and clunky abilities like in Heavensward". How are Fey Union, Dissipation, Seraph, and Fey Blessing not clunky abilities? How is Ruin II not a useless ability?

It's because these things are not unique to Scholar that I listed all of them. Ruin II is useful for movement. I can see how the pet abilities are a bit slow to use but this is because you are commanding a pet to use an ability. Being slow to execute doesn't mean that they are useless or poorly-designed in concept (especially when Sage has many of the exact same abilities), but you could argue it's poorly designed in code. My feelings are that this would be easy to improve and that the delay was left there to make it realistic. If I told someone to do something, it would take them a moment to get up and start doing it, but because it's a game, maybe it should be faster. I don't find it a significant problem though.

I think it would be pretty cool for like paladin for example, to have some super holy spell that uses 100 or maybe 50, to give you that sort of thing were you have an option to sacrifice defense for offense. The new DRK cd from EW would be a good example to add to the gauge and would give it that sort of interaction.

I agree. I doubt it will happen because they don't want to make it complicated to someone trying it out for the first time. The more options you give someone, the more you confuse them and make them feel that it's complicated. The more DPS-related options you give them, the more ways you give a new player get it wrong and the skill gap grows.

I thought that I wouldn't like the skill gap being artificially closed, but now that it's happened, I don't really have a problem with it. Little changes such as using Holy Spirit instead of Confiteor still letting you use Blade of Faith or using Flourish with procs up not punishing you anymore doesn't affect me, but it protects new players from messing it up as much.

As long as they are still fun to play and can do interesting things such Paladin using Clemency and having an abundance of magic attacks, I'm happy. As I said, when I look at all of the jobs objectively they still have a lot of unique aspects to them. The most homogenized thing is the aoe and some of them are different. For as homogenized as healers are, the differences lie in features such as cards, pets, leaps and expedient.

[hynaku]

Really like sage how it is right now and next would-be reaper where it just needs a little fixing but about perfect how it is now.