Tale of Emet [FF14 x Nier Reincarnation event story]

[Cleretic]

To be fair, the ancients being extinct has little to do with their relative intelligence levels.

Though modern humans are intelligent enough, so what would "fourteen times as intelligent" even look like?

If we take the statement to be true, then it looks like 'not recognizing a trap, while you're standing in the middle of the trap, with a blueprint of said trap'.

(the notion of giving Emet full credit for Elidibus' demise is ridiculous, when the 'killing' blow was THAT one.)

And yeah, the whole plan of the Future Ironworks is... also, mostly full credit to them. Sure, with the rift traversal they had Omega as real technology to work off of, but for time travel they only really had theory; not only did Alexander not leave anything physical to work off of, but Alexander was a primal who as such did not have to adhere to scientific laws. What the Future Ironworks did was essentially the equivalent of reverse-engineering Vishnu based only on the tales in Hindu myth.

Remember that the Enigma Codex was lost, so even if that did have useful information they couldn't refer to it. Which... actually, now that I think about it, might mean that sundered people figured out time travel twice before the Ascians got there once.

[Iscah]

If we take the statement to be true, then it looks like 'not recognizing a trap, while you're standing in the middle of the trap, with a blueprint of said trap'.

We can't really judge... well, Themis's capabilities based on the frayed remnant of his mind, primalised and left to unravel for 12,000 years.

Still, I think there has to be a point where being theoretically smarter doesn't look detectably different. The analogy that's coming to mind is screen resolution or image quality – the difference between low res and average and reasonably high res is sharp, but from "super high res" to "super-duper mindbogglingly high res" is not really as much of a practical difference.

[Lyth]

My point around the Amaurotians is that it's hard to credit a single nation as being responsible for all of humanity's innovations when they don't exist anymore, which effectively prevents them from taking credit for future innovations. It's more an observation that the debate itself is moot, rather than being a commentary on whether Horde or Alliance is smarter.

[DevonEllwood]

The whole "don't consider you alive" stuff is Emet lying to himself. It's a coping mechanism. You head down to the nice little city he made and the inhabitants aren't saying "hey, that's a stupid looking ant" or whatever. They call you a child. They clearly see you aren't wearing robes and you being short is hardly a factor when some of you are too furry or scaly or are the size of a shaved border collie.

[Lyth]

The name of that defense mechanism is rationalization. What of it?

[Vyrerus]

From there, it was Cid who had to develop a theory of time travel based on Alexander, with Omega tech being brought in later to allow safe traversal of the rift

The thing is, is that Cid and Nero both were given their education by Garleans who were educated by Emet-selch in the ways of Magitek. And every advancement in those fields was done by reverse engineering Allagan technology, which was created by Emet-selch.

The seedbed that Cid flourished in was laid by Emet-selch.

And in the end, they built the Tycoon, which is a blow for blow match-up of Alexander Prime. It's less theory and more recreation. The real achievement is the blending of it with two other technologies. However, Allagan technology is based off of Omega's technology, but we have no exact road map of who did that.

Anyway, not trying to kill 8UC's achievement, but it's literally not possible without Cid whose level of technical expertise is impossible without Solus yae Galvus introducing Magitek to the Garleans.

[EaraGrace]

The thing is, is that Cid and Nero both were given their education by Garleans who were educated by Emet-selch in the ways of Magitek. And every advancement in those fields was done by reverse engineering Allagan technology, which was created by Emet-selch.

The seedbed that Cid flourished in was laid by Emet-selch.

And in the end, they built the Tycoon, which is a blow for blow match-up of Alexander Prime. It's less theory and more recreation. The real achievement is the blending of it with two other technologies. However, Allagan technology is based off of Omega's technology, but we have no exact road map of who did that.

Anyway, not trying to kill 8UC's achievement, but it's literally not possible without Cid whose level of technical expertise is impossible without Solus yae Galvus introducing Magitek to the Garleans.

The gap between Magitek and time travel however (and I would argue Crystal Tower Tycoon and Alexander as well) is large. Emet notes that as well, which is why he kidnaps Graha.

[Cleretic]

The gap between Magitek and time travel however (and I would argue Crystal Tower Tycoon and Alexander as well) is large. Emet notes that as well, which is why he kidnaps Graha.

Yeah, the impact on Cid on the time travel functionality is honestly much less about Cid and the Ironworks being technically knowledgeable, and much more about the fact that Cid and the Ironworks saw and wrote down details of a time machine. A time machine that, I should reiterate, did not have to make actual scientific sense, so it's questionable how well the Ironworks' notes actually described its mechanisms.

[KariTheFox]

A time machine that, I should reiterate, did not have to make actual scientific sense, so it's questionable how well the Ironworks' notes actually described its mechanisms.

I'm not so sure about that - because Alexander was summoned by the Illuminati, who seem to value scientific knowledge and technology above everything else, thier belief that Alexander should follow scientifc principles, even if nobody currently understands them, means that he does.

Sort of using the power of primal summoning to leapfrog ahead in technology.

[Lyth]

This sounds vaguely like that design principle where the Space Shuttle booster rocket design was influenced by a series of associated stepwise design constraints back to the dimensions of the Roman War chariot. That doesn't mean that the Ancient Romans were somehow responsible for or essential to the creation of the Space Shuttle.