Dragoon is a pretty complete Job. What could productively change in 6.20 (or beyond)?

[Eorzean_username]

Possible changes for 6.20 — What could still be productively adjusted on Dragoon?

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First of all — what aspects of Dragoon are currently working well?

I personally feel like Dragoon, while I would definitely not call it "perfect", is currently one of the most comfortable and clean Job designs in FFXIV. For the most part, it just... works.

For example, I can't personally say that I see any reason to modify any of these aspects of Dragoon:

• The core 10-GCD combo cycle. This feels distinct to Dragoon, and I think it's fun/cool.
• The core OGCD functionality, aesthetics, and design. These "just work", they're fun to press, they feel good.
• The core rotational loop of Build—Buff—Life—Dump. It's mostly-intuitive, accessible, and mostly feels good/fun to execute.

Any drastic adjustments to the fundamental ideas of Dragoon's current rotational flow seem unnecessary — although it could still be implemented more cleanly, or adjusted and "modernized" a bit.

This leads me to the opinion that Dragoon, in its current state, really only needs "Quality of Life" tweaks, and/or "polishing", "cleaning up rough edges", etc.

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Then... what current aspects of Dragoon could reasonably benefit from adjustment or improvement?

Dragon Sight

The details of why Dragon Sight has sunk to a miserable state at this point have been discussed ad-nauseum by now, so I'll skip "lancing a dead drake", so to speak.

But, basically, "Dragon Sight" in its current form not only remains a logistical nuisance to activate, but also now has little better identity than "I'm an Astrologian Card with a 2-minute cooldown and no graphic".

This poor thing... needs help. Or some polite euthanasia.

Blood for Blood / "Lance Charge" / Blood of the Dragon

This one might seem like a peculiar thing to even bring up, but honestly, I — and at least some other friends that I've talked to about this — feel like the casting animation and swirling blue aura of "Blood of the Dragon" was really an iconic part of Dragoon, stretching all the way back to Heavensward, and the "Blood" theming in the names also had good "lore resonance", so to speak.

Likewise, I think that "Lance Charge", albeit fitting for Lancers, is... very underwhelming as an action title for Dragoons.

There is no objective gameplay issue here, I just feel like it's undermining the "aesthetics" and "flavor" of the Job. And while they don't take top priority in design debates for practical reasons, these aspects of a Job's fantasy do matter for the player experience!

Movement

Dragoon has a bit of "That One Meme with The Cat Watching The Dog Be Hugged" going on with Melee Mobility in EW. Especially in spite of Dragoon usually being the FF franchise's "Super Jumpy Job" that is traditionally depicted as swooping all over the place like Batman.

Elusive Jump is cool, and of course, makes players feel Very Clever™ when used "creatively" to move around. But realistically, it's still awkward and unintutive, and not always an 'accessible' technique, either, due to all the camera-wobbling required. And frankly, it's also just weird, in a kinda-not-really-good way, that Dragoons have been conditioned to move themselves around like a panicking lobster.

And as for Spineshatter Dive... compared to freely-available tools like Monk "Thunderclap", Ninja "Shukuchi", and Reaper "Egress", or DPS-neutral short-CD tools like Samurai "Gyoten"... Dragoon's Potency-important Spineshatter Dive just does not function on-par — not even with charges, because in FFXIV players's minds, "charges" just means "Hold even more uses for burst windows?? Okay!!"

Life Surge

Due to Life Surge pressuring Dragoon to try to consume it with a very specific GCD, Life Surge has very little leeway for "when" it is activated.

Even with charges, this can lead to uncomfortable clashes between Life Surge and other actions that have strict cooldowns and must not be delayed.

The problem is that Life Surge's charges do not address the fact that Dragoon's very long combo cycle takes a long time to loop back around to a point that Life Surge wants to be used at.

So while Life Surge cooldown itself might not be "lost" by delaying it in favor of a more urgent OGCD, the "effectiveness" will still be drifted disappointingly. This can cause uncomfortable dilemmas during burst windows — sometimes, things can really get tangled, and so you skip Heavens Thrust and think "I'll use it on Fifth Hit", but then it clashes again...

I think that this is not a huge issue, and the times it clashes so badly is rare, but if we're talking about "cleaning up" Dragoon, I guess this is an out-standing aspect of awkwardness.

Spineshatter and Dragonfire Dives

Some players feel that having a large variety of Jumps makes Dragoon "Dragoon-like", and I can understand that perspective, but I'm not sure that I personally agree.

In a lot of FF games, Dragoon just has one universal Jump, and it still feels distinctly "Dragoon-like". So I feel like High Jump, and its very frequent usage, already captures that "Dragoon-like" quality cleanly enough on its own.

Therefore, I see Spineshatter Dive — especially with 2 charges — as mostly just key-clutter and weave-clutter. It no longer Stuns. It no longer generates Eyes. It just doesn't seem to have much personality anymore... it's like "High Jump's less popular cousin".

So I think that Dragoon could consolidate key space, and free up room for other actions — or even just weave-space for things like Feint — by viewing the current state of Spineshatter as being a disposable action.

Dragon Gauge / Life of the Dragon

Despite being so core to Dragoon's playstyle, I think that the Gauge and Life design is actually one of the most awkward current parts of Dragoon.

The reasons that I think this are:

• Dragon Gauge / Life feels weird, in that it's on a strange "timer" system that doesn't really sync up with how most Job Gauges function.

• The weird mix of a Timer, but also the 10s CD on Nastrond, leads to a strange and vaguely-unintuitive Gauge/Burst design.

• That one weird "hangnail" Nastrond that always ends up outside burst windows, which feels like the rotational equivalent of finding an unused firecracker in your garage, 1 week after the actual holiday event ended.

• The, honestly, clunky and awkard "stutter" portion of Life, where Geirskogul turns into Nastrond, but has a separate CD timer, so the entry of Life needs to be "double-tapped" Geirskogul+Nastrond, while the exit of Life ends up with a "Jump Scare" style Geirskogul that suddenly pops up after Nastrond disappears... and if you don't anticipate and weave it immediately, the entire cycle drifts problematically.

• The awkward way that Mirage Dive has to be manipulated in situations where Dragoon does not want to enter Life at the wrong time. This stems from Geirskogul's strict CD demanding immediate use every time it refreshes, while also holding the dual purpose of entering Life... all of which means that generating Eyes in the wrong order can push a Dragoon into a "no-win" corner rotationally and Potency-wise.

I don't personally feel that the core style of the Dragoon gameplay loop needs drastic changes, but I can still see how the current Life design feels somewhat inelegant, awkward, unclean, dated, etc.

So I think that Dragon Gauge / Life could be cleaned up and modernized a bit.

I think that this would also have the additional benefit of allowing Dragoon to have more room to grow in the future, since the current Life system seems to struggle to add any new or interesting details.

[Eorzean_username]

Elaborating on some of those Life / Gauge ideas listed above

"In practice, this is basically just the same thing as always, so why..."

In addition to making Geirskogul more flexible about exactly when you use it, this would also open up more design space for the future than the current "Timer Life" system can do.

For example, a future trait could add an alternative Gauge consumer, or make Fifth Hits of the combo generate 5 Gauge, or cause Wyrmwind Thrust to generate 25 Gauge, or make Stardiver refund 1 Fang... etc, etc, etc.

The idea is to try to clean up and modernize the Dragoon gauge system, and not to try to significantly change the core gameplay loop .

"But with this system, Dragoon would feel pressured to skip odd-minute windows and try to hold full Gauge until the bigger 2-minute burst windows..."

Maybe... I think it's a legitimate concern.

But if this became an issue, or was deemed undesirable or unenjoyable gameplay, it could be adjusted for, and controlled.

For example: "A fresh set of Dragon Fangs lasts for 30 seconds. After 30 seconds, any unused Dragon Fangs are automatically lost."

I left this sort of limitation out of the initial sketch above, because it seemed like it would be more interesting to high-end Dragoons to have the potential to trigger Life right before a downtime phase, and then resume the encounter with 3 Fangs still stored and waiting when a boss returns.

In contrast, putting a timer on Fangs would feel a bit limited and odd compared to how most Gauges work, but it would also allow the currently-standard "30 second Life window" to be more firmly-reenforced.

"Why does Blood of the Dragon / Lance Charge generate 50 Gauge?"

That's to allow Dragoon to go into Life in the Opener. Most Jobs get to do their full rotation when they open a fight, and I think it's more fun that way.

I deliberately favored putting this gauge generation on the 60-second BOTD / Lance Charge, because that would force Geirskogul to be used at least once per minute outside burst windows — preserving that long-standing aspect of the Dragoon rotation, and allowing Geirskogul to still have a presence outside burst windows.

As well, gaining 150 Gauge per 60s, but only "needing" 100 Gauge, would add some depth / complexity to the decision-making about how to manage the Gauge's various resources when optimizing an encounter — something that seems to be enjoyable (or at least satisfying) for high-tier players.

That said, I can already see this potentially becoming Really Cursed™ as Dragoons ravenously attempt to attain a Reaper-esque Double Stardiver / "6 Fangs" in 2m windows while also not delaying High Jump, Dragonfire Dive, Wyrmwind Thrust, Dragon Sight, Battle Litany, or Life Surge, and probably Feint and True North somewhere in there most of the time, too.

If that ends up seeming irritating or stressful rather than fun — or legitimately "too busy" — just delete the Gauge generation from BOTD, which would reset Dragoon back to the longstanding "No Life" opener and familiar, static 60 second rhythm.

"But if Stardiver consumes all your Fangs, then Stardiver timing isn't as flexible anymore! Boo!"

Legitimate criticism. That is definitely a deviation from the longstanding Stardiver design, and potentially problematic due to Stardiver's long animation lock making it not always favorable to be "forced" to activate Stardiver at too specific of a time.

Personally, I feel like Stardiver is more interesting as a powerful finisher like Communio, so it would be "worth it".

But if you disagree, it could always be changed to just make Stardiver require (but not consume) at least 1 Dragon Fang, and to make entering Life grant "Stardiver Ready" for 30s. That would be a more authentic analogue to the current Dragoon system as of Patch 6.10. But that also felt a lot more boring to me, so I went with the alternative in the sketch above.

[Aco505]

Therefore, I'm particularly curious whether the changes have made the packed Dragoon burst window feel "workable" for all players. If you have a "less ideal" connection, how does 6.10 Dragoon feel for you?

DRG is adequately busy right now, as this happens mostly during the even-minute burst windows in a manner similar to NIN or DRK. The animation lock reduction has made this smooth and so there's no problems anymore. Compared to ShB, we mostly press 2 more oGCDs in even-minute windows: one SPD and one WWT. LS is barely used in these because of the way HT aligns, and because it's a loss to use LS on a 5th positional with Litany up compared to a non-buffed HT.

What DRG needs to make burst windows more lenient is to increase Battle Litany's duration to 20s for the DRG only (party still gets a 15s buff). This way, drifting will be less problematic. This would have to be paired with the Dragon Sight + Lance Charge merge, with the former becoming an upgrade to the latter: a 15-20%, 60s personal buff.

Therefore, I see Spineshatter Dive — especially with 2 charges — as mostly just key-clutter and weave-clutter. It no longer Stuns. It no longer generates Eyes. It just doesn't seem to have much personality anymore... it's like "High Jump's less popular cousin".

If the ability no longer has a personality, then it should be given one. What do we gain exactly from removing it entirely? One less oGCD to press? What about similar abilities like Shadowbringer? I'm not saying they're the greatest of the bunch, but perhaps the issue lies in their role and not their existence.

The same thing goes for Dragonfire Dive. As a 120s cooldown, it needs to have a more defined purpose. If it's to be a hard-hitting attack every 2-min, then let it be so. If it's to empower another attack/give us a proc or produce resources, then that's also fine.

This stems from Geirskogul's strict CD demanding immediate use every time it refreshes, while also holding the dual purpose of entering Life... all of which means that generating Eyes in the wrong order can push a Dragoon into a "no-win" corner rotationally and Potency-wise.

This is fixed by making drifting less punishing (i.e. making Litany last longer for the DRG), so that drifts of one GCD are not already enough to risk the 2nd Nastrond to not be buffed by Litany.

A trait called "Blood for Blood" could upgrade "Lance Charge" to "Blood of the Dragon" at level 50+.

While I like this idea, BoTD would be used during bursts only, which is also when we gain Life. Therefore, if Life stays the way it is, the blue glow will only be seen for like 2 GCDs before it becomes red or in a non-life opener.

If applying the Life changes that you suggest below, then the red aura no longer exists or is very limited, making us trade one aura for the other. The solution is to just allow us to have BoTD's aura any time we have one or two eyes stored (like Darkside/Beast Gauge). We spend 50% of the fight in Life, so it's only fair to spend the other 50% (in most cases unless you go double life) in a BoTD state.

That said, changing the cast animation of LC into BoTD is good for me, though I'd ideally merge LC and DS' animations: use the LC animation with the swirling dragon from DS spiraling around our body.

Instead, just give Dragoon a "Reverse Elusive Jump"

You suggested this in your other thread at the time and I still believe the same thing I replied then: this'd make DRG RPR 2.0. We don't want full homogenization. We don't even need a gap closer anymore thanks to the much improved EJ, but it'd be great to have one, as it'd finally make us truly mobile just like the other melees.

Due to Life Surge pressuring Dragoon to try to consume it with a very specific GCD, Life Surge has very little leeway for "when" it is activated.

Even with charges, this can lead to uncomfortable clashes between Life Surge and other actions that have strict cooldowns and must not be delayed.

Yes and no. Despite how odd it is and how many people vouch for its removal, Life Surge is an interesting ability because it's the only one that interacts with our GCDs and does not follow the "press on cooldown" rule. It requires some thinking even if in the end you can just plan its usage on an encounter-by-encounter basis, though it's true that pressing it on CD on any HT/Coerthan Torment will be right 90% of the time.

The clashes you mention almost never happen, as you say yourself. It's mostly in some odd-minute bursts when HJ is up at the same time, and you barely use it in even-minute bursts because a suitable HT either comes up before/after they start or at the very end when the burst is almost over.

The ability needs to not have anti-crit synergy (see https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5880390) and be able to be used with more GCDs so that it's more engaging.

Perhaps it could even be turned into a GCD attack a la Sonic Break/Gnashing Fang with similar effects but that grants a scale as well: extra GCDs (e.g. Piercing Talon) delay scale generation which then push WWT out of buffs, though this could be mitigated by having a max of 3 scales with a cost of 2.

Several of the options you provide for LS are good though, and I'd personally like it if it could interact with Chaotic Spring in some way.

This is the most drastic change that I'd advocate for: cleaning up the dated Life system.

The overall idea is good, and it makes sense. However, it's very similar to how RPR works. Allowing several NAS back to back is going to make the burst as busy or more, which is not a problem to me but it apparently is for the devs. Additionally, Stardiver removing all of the stacks is basically Communio, and forcing it to be used last makes the burst more rigid.

I agree that the Life gauge does not offer "much", but turning it into Enshroud is not the solution. It should lean more towards Enochian (management of some sort) than Enshroud: you cannot use GSK to get more eyes while you have fangs similar to how you cannot get Soul/Shroud during Enshroud. It is not in our best interest for DRG to become the oGCD RPR, as it'd lose its identity. Perhaps a cursed suggestion would be to allow Nastrond to be affected by SkS while still being an oGCD, but DRG does not like SkS much as it drifts the oGCDs.

During HW, the BoTD gauge was filled using positionals and then spent with GSK spam, if I understand correctly, so perhaps something along the lines could be added to spice things up: we enter Life with 30 gauge, and NAS consumes 10 gauge per cast. This'd add another oGCD to the mix within the burst (the 3rd NAS), so it's important to consider.

We could still stay in LoTD status and keep the red aura for, let's say, 25s, since Life could interact with our GCDs in future expansions, for example. This'd also prevent GSK from mildly drifting after each LoTD use because of us coming out of it 5s before it comes off CD.

[Shurrikhan]

Thorough post as usual, Eorzean. Thank you for laying everything out so nicely.

Regarding the suggested changes:

• Euthanize Dragon Sight or rework it to be actually interesting. At minimum, even with <mo> fixes, that'd require putting on a different CD from Battle Litany.
  
  
• Yes to swirly blue on Lance Charge -> Blood of the Dragon, though I'd prefer it not be quite so large/opaque as the original form.
  
  
• Yes to the Geirskogul change towards a gauge spender. It'd allow us to give it, in effect, a second charge without both charges being spent instantly into the opener, since High Jump would remain unbankable. However, perhaps just give Jump the full 50 gauge, allowing us to bank/play around with Mirage Dive a bit more.
  
  
• Personally, I wouldn't mind getting rid of High Jump as a basic animation-locked ranged attack and replacing it with, say, an oGCD that simply launches you seemingly up (off the field) and greatly increases movement speed before either blink-striking to an enemy via a targeted GCD attack (upgraded into a dive variant) or hitting Jump again to descend for AoE damage (when hitting enemies, else a brief bonus Movement and Attack Speed if hitting nothing). Complete with i-frames against melee attacks, of course. That'd provide actual mobility rather than an awkward "let me take ALL the AoEs" pogo-stick ranged attack.
  
  
• Don't make Mirage Dive automatic. Instead, give us reason to desire to leverage the 15 seconds' control on it. Do spruce up its animation, though. The DRG's screaming-backache animation isn't terribly appealing.
  
  
• I'd recommend against the Dragon Fangs design, as it can make Nostrand feel spammy (all three unloaded within the first GCD).

Personally, I'd rather keep the timer and turn Life of the Dragon towards HW-era Blood of the Dragon, but centered around Nostrand instead of Geirskogul. You'd have a new, separate Life of the Dragon key which converts into Stardiver. Jump skills' damage, including Stardiver's, increased while within LotD. Each Gierskogul used prior gives you, say, 14 seconds' duration of LotD, while each Dragon skill (WT/F&C) used within generates, say, 5 seconds' duration, to a max of 40 seconds, and each Nostrand consumes... 10 seconds. (Spitballing here.)

Entering per minute, you'd typically have just enough to pop, say, 2 Nostrand immediately without dropping Life of the Dragon so long as you enter just before Dragon skills. You'd generally then have the option of trying to get a Nostrand off of 1 seconds duration (it consumes, but does not require, 10s, after all) or riding LotD all the way to your next Jump, then dropping it via Nostrand so you can begin again building up (the next) LotD's duration. Stardiver would stay for up to a minute of activating LotD, even if LotD itself fades.

Hell, go ahead and give it some fun further advantage, like increased movement speed and movement range, while we're at it.