Japanese FFXIV streamer receives a suspension for using add-ons.

[Jaquan]

Did anyone actually bother reading the last statement from YoshiP? The one about third party tools? Because I swear he gave out a list of examples that would likely result in strongest response and guess what? Discord/Voice Chats were never mentioned.

[Shurrikhan]

I have never in the 8 years I've been playing this game ever seen a single mention of anyone's DPS in any group chat ever. It simply is not a common occurrence in this game.

It's pretty damn rare even in WoW, GW2, or the like, to be fair.

The "knowledge = toxicity" narrative has only ever been blown out of proportion.


_____________

Lol, WoW players would use achievements to be toxic more often than a parsing add on.

Which, honestly, are far more relevant.

In a fight at least as much about mechanics as rotational competency, especially since throughput in WoW is far more situationally varied, "Have you cleared... anything... of this difficulty level before, or the prior difficulty level of this same content?" is a whole lot more useful than "What's your target dummy dps?"

I don't know if I consider asking for some sign of competence, especially due to the added time required to actually swap people out, if asking that you've at least cleared some Normal (roughly Coils of Bahamut-difficulty) mode bosses before jumping up to Heroic (Savage-equivalent) difficulty would be "toxic," but, yes, achievements were more often the gatekeeper.


You'll note there, too, that when dps does alarmingly low, the first (if any) comment on it is typically "What are we doing wrong?" ("Did we give you a bad Sludgefist pairing?" "Is our team positioning blocking off melee with goop puddles as they're trying to come back?")

Hell, sometimes having too high of damage, relative to previous bosses or trash, is what raises a red flag: "Hey, we really need you to be focusing this guy, not padding off the adds the OT's already handling fine."

[IdowhatIwant]

It's pretty damn rare even in WoW, GW2, or the like, to be fair.

The "knowledge = toxicity" narrative has only ever been blown out of proportion.

Lol, WoW players would use achievements to be toxic more often than a parsing add on.

[Reap00]

https://reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion...uspension_for/

A Japanese FFXIV streamer using XIVLauncher just received a 10-day suspension. He’s deleted all his twitch vods but here are some screenshots of him being taken to GM jail.

He was streaming with add-ons when SE’s announcement dropped and there were multiple posts on 5ch saying things like (paraphrasing) “Hey, let’s see if we can get these streamers banned” and “if SE doesn’t ban this streamer, I won’t believe in what they said about not allowing add-ons,” so I’m guessing there was a report brigade. A couple of hours later, the suspension happened.

I’d recommend avoiding streaming on Twitch with add-ons until the dust settles.

Edit: Looking at the screenshots, he was using SimpleTweaks for party buff timers, some plugin that lets you track other people’s CDs and ACT.

Also the streamer in question was speedrunner Hiroro from Team Overclock.

He broke the ToS while giving SE the middle finger by broadcasting it. He deserves the suspension.

[Ransu]

It's pretty damn rare even in WoW, GW2, or the like, to be fair.

The "knowledge = toxicity" narrative has only ever been blown out of proportion.


_____________



Which, honestly, are far more relevant.

In a fight at least as much about mechanics as rotational competency, especially since throughput in WoW is far more situationally varied, "Have you cleared... anything... of this difficulty level before, or the prior difficulty level of this same content?" is a whole lot more useful than "What's your target dummy dps?"

I don't know if I consider asking for some sign of competence, especially due to the added time required to actually swap people out, if asking that you've at least cleared some Normal (roughly Coils of Bahamut-difficulty) mode bosses before jumping up to Heroic (Savage-equivalent) difficulty would be "toxic," but, yes, achievements were more often the gatekeeper.


You'll note there, too, that when dps does alarmingly low, the first (if any) comment on it is typically "What are we doing wrong?" ("Did we give you a bad Sludgefist pairing?" "Is our team positioning blocking off melee with goop puddles as they're trying to come back?")

Hell, sometimes having too high of damage, relative to previous bosses or trash, is what raises a red flag: "Hey, we really need you to be focusing this guy, not padding off the adds the OT's already handling fine."

I didn't play WoW much, but ya the few times I did play it I never really ever came across the whole dps complaint thing at all in the dungeons.

[Punslinger]

If the rules are no addons and stupid people stream with them showing then they deserve a ban !!

Because rules are always just and never poorly-conceived or unevenly-enforced, right?

Having software that actively reads data from the game, especially data you shouldn't be able to see (other healer's cooldown times) is very obviously different.

How is it "data you shouldn't be able to see?"

Given: The game records your co-healer's use of Swiftcast in the combat log.
Given: Swiftcast has a known cooldown of fixed length.

Conclusion: You can look at the combat log and the elapsed time to determine the remaining cooldown. Or is subtraction a secret forbidden technique we're not supposed to understand? (Actually, given how much trouble people had with Construct 8...)

[Shurrikhan]

Or is subtraction a secret forbidden technique we're not supposed to understand?

Ogi: Hikisan
奥義: 引き算
Secret technique: Subtraction

Pruned before Samurai could even be released due to "cognitive bloat".

[kevin_satron]

Maybe if these people want some of these QoL add-ons to be implemented in game. Just ask them in the forum or create a petition to add those QoL. Just scream loud enough until they heard it.


Dps meter is a big no no. Personal or not. still big no. And yes, people arent stupid enough to use real calculator and sums all those numbers 1 by 1

[VerdeLuck]

Because rules are always just and never poorly-conceived or unevenly-enforced, right?

The rules have always been this way
SE doesn't want you using addons, mods, or plugins period.
They have no way to know if you're using them unless you outright say it or stream it and someone reports you.
But again, they really do not want you using them and if a report comes their way from someone and it has concrete proof you were using an addon, mod, or plugin, they will ban you.
It's always been like this, they don't ban everyone because the only people who are banned are the people who are reported with concrete proof of using them, whether an admission connected to their character name, or by streaming it.
Complaining that there's uneven enforcement is silly because they do evenly enforce it when they have proof, most cases just don't have enough proof for them to act on it, and these streamers are offering the proof up on a silver platter by admitting on stream they're using it, going to use it, or by having them visible.

[Shurrikhan]

Why try to misinterpret [Yoshi-P's] words on purpose?

That's the problem, though. The current ToS, both then and now, is incredibly subject to interpretation. And the dev's in-practice interpretation of it has newly changed.

By the definition given, looking up XIV guides online is a violation of the ToS. The use of Discord while playing XIV, Yoshida even clarified, is technically against the ToS. This was already clear, but the question was what, then, is reasonable to enforce.

Originally, use of third-party tools was a charge only in addendum. When Arthurs was banned, it was first and foremost for (inciting) harassment, not for ACT, because the prior was the actual harm done. When suspensions were given for the use of addons that provided data not already visible, the primary charge was quite simply cheating, because that was the actual harm done.

Now --no matter how early on the, by the developer's own admission, vague and excessive bounds of the ToS were set-- that interpretation has shifted.

XIV's way of handling ToS policy, "Let's claim a mile so we can claim an inch, or maybe a foot, or meter... maybe a kilometer," is not good for anyone, especially if that actual, enforced claim notably shifts. It moves focus away from the actual costs of bad addons or bad behavior from the likes of cheating or harassment to empty technicalities and is not stably defined by the XIV team's actions, which matter a whole lot more than boundaries the makers of which admit to being excessive and vague af.