Japanese FFXIV streamer receives a suspension for using add-ons.

[QT_Melon]

Next step ban gaming mouse and keyboard users, my gaming mouse technically cheat, it can do guaranteed double wave all the time.
Also ban stop watch / alarm users, important mechanics can be programmed on your phone with sound alert (arguably better than 3rd party) because you can select important ones.
Ban post-it users they take notes about important mechanics and time lines and stick to monitor.

Feels like "SE opens Pandora's box" and clueless what they will do next :3

Yes because OBVIOUSLY they can see what you're doing in your house because you're streaming all that...right? Every day, and especially during a World's First race where it had the company's attention the most?

Okay, so Yoshi gave out a lot of examples - even mentioned Discord in one of these interviews. Yes, he said no third party tools and even mentioned Discord being one of them. Who though, other than a possible overlay of chat is directly showing FFXIV interacting with the game to give them an unfair advantage? They don't usually do it because 1. They got Twitch stream going on already. 2. Most people don't exactly want to expose people's Discord information due to privacy concerns. Sure you may be part of a raid group and got their Lodestone name but not all people want you constantly badgering them on Discord as well. It's their choice who to interact with.

The other possibility of why Discord CAN get into third party tool territory is API like having the ACT bot act as a callout. So that's why Yoshi hasn't been specific because he may or may not know if people are doing that in Discord. A lot of leeway was due to the fact they can't account for every single possibility people could use with their "third party tool" in public.

It's this whataboutism that's so tiring I mean I guess people will keep trying to use it because it will reverse bans and all of SE's years of decisions on this matter ....

[Ransu]

Why do you need to know OTHER people's cooldowns? Other than to gripe at them?

Why do you need ACT? If you're putting out enough damage, you're going to know it. If you're not? You're going to know it.

If other people aren't? *They are going to know it.*

And this may shock you, but people clear top end content without mods. It's doable. Shocking, I know. But there's even evidence. Go watch the countless streams that have done it.

So. Again. Why do you need those numbers, in front of you, mid-combat? Other than to bark orders at other people.

1.) The obvious answer is likely to track buff windows.

2.) Whether you think players "need" ACT or not, knowing the statics DPS numbers is still a helpful tool in a game with hard locked enrage timers.

3.) How are they going to know its their DPS? Without a tool to point it out they have no idea if they are doing enough or not or if they need to adjust their rotation.

4.) Sure, but it doesn't hurt to have tools to help.

5.) This may come as a surprise to you, but the majority of people using these tools are in static groups. No ones using them to "gripe" at others, especially not in PF groups because they obviously know that mentioning it would immediately be actioned against their account, not for the tool but for harassment. The reason why WoW has so many problems is the lack of enforcement from players harassing others, not the tools themselves.

[iluke77]

1.) The obvious answer is likely to track buff windows.

2.) Whether you think players "need" ACT or not, knowing the statics DPS numbers is still a helpful tool in a game with hard locked enrage timers.

3.) How are they going to know its their DPS? Without a tool to point it out they have no idea if they are doing enough or not or if they need to adjust their rotation.

4.) Sure, but it doesn't hurt to have tools to help.

5.) This may come as a surprise to you, but the majority of people using these tools are in static groups. No ones using them to "gripe" at others, especially not in PF groups because they obviously know that mentioning it would immediately be actioned against their account, not for the tool but for harassment. The reason why WoW has so many problems is the lack of enforcement from players harassing others, not the tools themselves.

may be a surprise to you but all the bad reasons that players use these addons to harass belittle other players for not being good enough at their class ( tell me that doesnt happen ever ) ohh and the exploiting botting etc etc are the reasons why the devs are dropping ban hammers hard and with the influx of players there is even more people using them for the wrong reason !!

If the rules are no addons and stupid people stream with them showing then they deserve a ban !!

[kaynide]

The easiest case in point:

I'm a healer, my swift cast is down, someone else promptly eats a marker and dies.

A) We both say 'no swiftcast' on TS, I start hard casting the raise without the need to wait.

B) I spot their swiftcast is on CD, I start the hard cast raise without the need to wait.

These both use a 3rd party program to quickly let me gauge information I 'shouldn't' be privy to which in turn helps me make a decision quicker to gain an advantage in content.

Yet one is absolutely fine, the other is a 10 day ban and a permanent mark on your account.

Why?

Because you can just as easily type out "no swiftcast ready" or have it macro'd.

Voicechat is simply not something that's going to get you banned because people use phones or -heaven forbid- simply play the game together in the same room.

Having software that actively reads data from the game, especially data you shouldn't be able to see (other healer's cooldown times) is very obviously different.

[Sebazy]

Because you can just as easily type out "no swiftcast ready" or have it macro'd.

Voicechat is simply not something that's going to get you banned because people use phones or -heaven forbid- simply play the game together in the same room.

Having software that actively reads data from the game, especially data you shouldn't be able to see (other healer's cooldown times) is very obviously different.

This is precisely the point. I could even be playing next to my co healer and simply peer over at their hotbars quickly to see if they have Swiftcast. Once we've got the routine down I could memorise if they use swiftcast consistently at a point for movement. I could make a mental note if they got a raise recently or if I had not long heard it's fairly distinctive audio cue.

This is all a huge nothing burger, yet one of these will land you a 10 day ban etc etc.

[Scaramouche]

Because you can just as easily type out "no swiftcast ready".

As a ps4 player I have to

click 1 or 2 times touch pad
press right pad
press circle
press triangle
Go to every letter 1 by 1
press R2
press circle


All that without being able to move/attack while the virtual keyboard cover a good chunk of my screen.

[Vahlnir]

As a ps4 player I have to

click 1 or 2 times touch pad
press right pad
press circle
press triangle
Go to every letter 1 by 1
press R2
press circle


All that without being able to move/attack while the virtual keyboard cover a good chunk of my screen.

Virtual keyboard on the PS4/5 is the worst. You should honestly invest in a wireless/wired keyboard for chat.

[Ransu]

may be a surprise to you but all the bad reasons that players use these addons to harass belittle other players for not being good enough at their class ( tell me that doesnt happen ever ) ohh and the exploiting botting etc etc are the reasons why the devs are dropping ban hammers hard and with the influx of players there is even more people using them for the wrong reason !!

If the rules are no addons and stupid people stream with them showing then they deserve a ban !!

I have never in the 8 years I've been playing this game ever seen a single mention of anyone's DPS in any group chat ever. It simply is not a common occurrence in this game.

[Illmaeran]

The problem, which Xenosys pointed out, is that the "new" rules are so unsharp, that you could be banned for using Discord, Teamspeak, Excel, a browser etc. And the second good point is, this player got banned for using some functionalities, which the devs themself find good and want to implement them into the game later. That is very inconsequent, imho.

If SE make a clear and explicit list of third party programs that are unacceptable, the Mental Gymnasts and Sophists Club will respond with "Well, it's not on that list so it must be ok even though it's against the spirit of the rule.". Just because someone doesn't explicitly say doing something is wrong, doesn't mean it's ok to do when it's abundantly clear that it's against the intent of the rule if not the most technical definition of it.

With that in mind, SE have to be as broad as possible in order to have ground to stand on when they enforce things. I think we can all agree that using Discord as a voice communication platform is WELL within acceptable limits per the spirit and intent of the rule. Voice chat's been used since before I started playing online games in the late 90s and is a core application for many online gamers. In and of itself, VOIP doesn't modify the game files in any way nor provide any automated services or other advantage. A person still has to make callouts with reaction time limited by human ability. It's not putting a marker on the ground where there shouldn't be one. It's not reading game files or information to give the player additional information the base UI doesn't. It's a conference call through a headset.

It's unfortunate that he brought Discord up, but we all know someone would say "But, Discord's third party, it's banned!" etc, etc, etc. For anyone familiar with Japanese communication, the message was pretty clear: Voice chat's ok.

[Avatre]

As a ps4 player I have to

click 1 or 2 times touch pad
press right pad
press circle
press triangle
Go to every letter 1 by 1
press R2
press circle


All that without being able to move/attack while the virtual keyboard cover a good chunk of my screen.

As Vahlnir said below you, invest in a wireless keyboard. I did a while ago, and it saves tons of time when trying to type out anything because that virtual keyboard is trash and prevents you form doing anything else. At least with a wireless keyboard you can still move to avoid mechanics if need be.

Even a $20 one will work. Just keep it beside your chair, and turn it off when you're done for the night(I recharge mine once every couple weeks).