Tale of Emet [FF14 x Nier Reincarnation event story]

[Jandor]

Maybe they just weren't talking? They had just been sundered after all, I think we can all agree that getting chopped up into 14 pieces probably leaves you with a few aches and pains, enough to spur on some groaning at least.

[Veloran]

I'm inclined to take it as unreliable narrator plus writing to convey in broad strokes for a non-FF audience plus possibly Ishikawa not checking the finer points of what the Echo can do, because that entire thing has been out the window for some time.

For the Echo to work, a being needs to have a soul plus at least some kind of conscious intent in the vein of language. Even Krile's Echo, which is even more sensitive to the "whispers of the soul" than WoL's, doesn't allow her to understand animals. Given how the souls of the first post-Sundering people looked from the story, literally twisted and malformed, it may be that they're simply so torn apart that the Echo can't work on them, or otherwise the only sentiment their souls are capable of expressing is a pitiful, senseless moaning.

[EaraGrace]

For the Echo to work, a being needs to have a soul plus at least some kind of conscious intent in the vein of language. Even Krile's Echo, which is even more sensitive to the "whispers of the soul" than WoL's, doesn't allow her to understand animals. Given how the souls of the first post-Sundering people looked from the story, literally twisted and malformed, it may be that they're simply so torn apart that the Echo can't work on them, or otherwise the only sentiment their souls are capable of expressing is a pitiful, senseless moaning.

This wholly depends on whether you take Emet at his literal word and that we have an agreed upon conception of what is “malformed.” If you do, then we have reason to believe they were twisted as you do. If not, then Emets description is an exaggeration.

The reason why I’m personally inclined to the latter is that Emet does not seem to change his description of the Sundered even after their souls supposedly stabilized (if we believe they were unstable or malformed). His description of Varis and humanity is almost word for word how he describes the Sundered immediately post Sundering

Emet: In the end, they were all just malformed creatures. Feeble, frail, and foolish. Thrashing blindly about in their fleeting, fragmented lives, repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Never could they replace his brethren.

Which leads me to my interpretation, which is that the malformed beings he saw are the same in all aspects to the Sundered we know today, and the lack of words was only a lack of physical speech, and not indicative of a lack of or damaged soul. He probably could understand, but to a physical listener it’d sound like it’s written.

[Rulakir]

Why wouldn't someone take Emet at his word? He has a history of being brutally honest. Conversely, Venat has a history of being deceitful.

[Iscah]

Why wouldn't someone take Emet at his word? He has a history of being brutally honest. Conversely, Venat has a history of being deceitful.

Brutally honest is not the same thing as having a perfectly objective grasp of the situation.

And if you want to take him at his word in all situations, then we should conclude that his demonstration of sundering Ryne is an accurate depiction of what happened.

[Veloran]

This wholly depends on whether you take Emet at his literal word and that we have an agreed upon conception of what is “malformed.” If you do, then we have reason to believe they were twisted as you. If not, then Emets description is an exaggeration.

I don't think that's Emet's description, I think it's the description of an omniscient third-party narrator. When you look at the narration in part 2, I would hardly call something like "At last, the Light of the future - The bright god emerges victorious" to be from Emet's perspective. Similarly the "Unnngh... Aaah..." is something we actually hear, quoted, and the twisted forms of their souls is something we actually see. I also don't understand why you think he'd be able to understand them with the Echo, or why the sundering of their souls would have no negative repercussions and be non-damaging. Again, Krile can't understand animals, and these people have effectively been reduced to the same state.

we should conclude that his demonstration of sundering Ryne is an accurate depiction of what happened.

He also says that in addition to the soul, a single sundering would half both strength and intelligence. The full sundering would have left people with - at most, depending on the exact method - 1/14th their original intellect and physical strength. So even if, in that example, both Rynes looked the same with his projection, in reality they would both be half what they were previously in every way.

1/14th the physical strength and I doubt any Ancient would even be capable of standing and moving around with those huge bodies of theirs. They probably all just died of exposure on the spot, if their organs were even capable of functioning and pumping blood and oxygen throughout their forms at that point.

[EaraGrace]

I don't think that's Emet's description, I think it's the description of an omniscient third-party narrator.

I don’t think the narrator is completely separated from Emets view though. She even says in regards to the Sundering that “Such an outcome is unbearable.” The other uses of the words “malformed,” and “pitiful” are more than descriptors. If this story was written from Venats perspective you likely see words like “resilient” or “imperfect,” because quite simply she would interpret the situation differently. Which kind of calls into question whether the narrator is objective right?

When you look at the narration in part 2, I would hardly call something like "At last, the Light of the future - The bright god emerges victorious" to be from Emet's perspective. Similarly the "Unnngh... Aaah..." is something we actually hear, quoted, and the twisted forms of their souls is something we actually see. I also don't understand why you think he'd be able to understand them with the Echo, or why the sundering of their souls would have no negative repercussions and be non-damaging. Again, Krile can't understand animals, and these people have effectively been reduced to the same state.

I don’t think that Emet would disagree with that line, in fact I think he said something similar in Raktika but I’d have to find the quote. And once again those malformed souls we see are later human like with no indication that it’s a different scene. Everyone there is in the same pose, in the same places, with no mention that the souls themselves were repaired or becoming more formed. In one of the battles you see human-esque entities with big sundering symbols all over, clearly meant to imply their Sundered Humans, but it’s obvious that isn’t what they actually look like since… we’ll we know what the Sundered look like.

And while Krile can’t understand animals we can, so long as they’re intelligent (and even to a certain extent when they are not). Given those Sundered beings are us and we aren’t any less intelligent than the Ancients (imo) I think they could be understood by someone with the echo.

[MikkoAkure]

Why wouldn't someone take Emet at his word? He has a history of being brutally honest. Conversely, Venat has a history of being deceitful.

The tragic thing about Emet-Selch is that while he reveals brutal truths to us, he lies to himself. He is an unreliable narrator not because he is deliberately trying to mislead us, he is one because his “truth” is from his own point of view, which itself is not consistent and comes from the viewpoint of someone who had gone too far to come back from and is trying to convince himself of his own righteousness.

Sure, he told us about the secret behind practically everything, but he also said that the sundered are “malformed beings”, despite legitimately falling in love (typically the opposite of thinking someone is a malformed being) and having a child who by his own shocked admission filled him with hope when he held him as a newborn.

He spent 12,000 years focused on a singular goal of trying to bring back his old world and talking about how great it was while dismissing the people of the new worlds despite simultaneously trying to find a spark of something in them that would make them worth inheriting the star. After a climactic battle in which he is finally defeated, cleansed of shadow, and put to rest, he isn’t spiteful and purposefully ruins his own original plans by destroying any possibility of the return of Amaurot, and enters the Underworld at peace while admitting that his enemy would have gotten further than he would have.

One line I really liked from the Tales of the Shadows in a conversation about a creation accidentally getting a soul filled with regret between Emet-Selch and Hythlodeus also shows his character:

"Consumed by the fear of death, it thrashes blindly about. It will know only pain and suffering and inflict the same upon others. A pitiful existence."
"Such moving empathy. It's as if you wore the feathers yourself."

[Veloran]

I don’t think that Emet would disagree with that line, in fact I think he said something similar in Raktika but I’d have to find the quote.

In Rak'tika Emet describes Zodiark with terms like "His grace", "A savior mighty and magnificent", and Hydaelyn as just "Hydaelyn" or very derisively as "your Mother". Hardly descriptors like "dark god", "dark deity", or "brighter god" and "the Light of the future". In particular here the narrator, when speaking, describes Zodiark in almost ominous tones but Hydaelyn in almost reverent tones. None of this really matches with an Emet perspective.

And once again those malformed souls we see are later human like with no indication that it’s a different scene.

Between the two slides showing them going from twisted and malformed to more fully shaped, the narrator literally says "Decades, centuries, millennia pass. As he works tirelessly, the wretched creatures begin to learn. They speak in new tongues, worship new gods, and forge new histories." We're jumping thousands of years between that shift, I don't really see how it can be said that there is "no indication" that the scene is changing.

In one of the battles you see human-esque entities with big sundering symbols all over, clearly meant to imply their Sundered Humans,

What are you referring to?

And while Krile can’t understand animals we can, so long as they’re intelligent

There are instances where WoL can seem to "understand" animals, but I think the game usually makes it clear that this is simply due to a lot of experience and intuition, not the Echo.

Given those Sundered beings are us and we aren’t any less intelligent than the Ancients (imo) I think they could be understood by someone with the echo.

The sundered then and the sundered now are probably nowhere near equivalent. I mean Emet outright says that intelligence and physicality is halved with each sundering, I don't see how the full 13/14ths sundering could possibly leave them with anything similar in terms of intellect and physicality, as this very narrative seems to outline.

[KageTokage]

I feel like the people of the First call into question just how much being rejoined actually matters in terms of affecting any aspects other then soul density.

They don't really come across as "lesser" then the people of the Source in any meaningful capacity.