Doesnt feel like the WoW migration improved the community.

[TristanX]

My experience with Holy Priest on WoW. Sometimes I have to push raid wide heals, sometimes focus on tank or dps doing mechanics and some fights got constant raid wide DoTs. Some bosses tests healers. Overheal too much or doing too much inefficient heals will get you out of mana. Out of mana on FF14 doesn't exist for me.

[Larirawiel]

Did you somehow expect an influx from a more toxic community to improve things? I expected almost the opposite, what I was hoping for was that the WoW refugees, or whatever is hip to call them nowadays, would be won over by the more chill community, which did a time seemed to be the case, but PLEASE! It doesn't matter where we came from, just where we are and what we do. And this is still a community I've had very positive experiences with. Outside of the forums, that's where the people who are not happy with simply playing the game goes.

I highly doubt, that you will see many toxic players from WoW in FF14. The toxicity generator in WoW is Mythic+ and raider.io. And there is not an equivalent in FF14 to this. So there no real reason to play FF14 for them.



Cheers

[Zaniel]

Not to sure about that, it is an objective fact that classes are being simplified. It is an objective fact that classes are losing identity. The subjective part is your opinion on those changes.

Even if something gets simplified it's still a subjective opinion as to whether a change is good or bad. Take Warrior Overpower for example, clearly a sideways move or simplification and obviously a homogenisation of tank AE. However, just take a look at the forums and social media, I'd say a good 75% of people prefer the change. YOU may not and that's fine but both the 75% and the 25% are subjective. People on the 25% negative side can't accept that though and insist on an argument of "objectively bad" to justify their subjectively feeling bad. Whereas if they just said "subjectively my opinion is this feels worse to ME" then most people would accept that and acknowledge their dislike.

(EDIT: I am aware we aren't really disagreeing)

In regards to the WoW thing, meh, I have seen a few people who want FF14 to become like their old WoW home but that's a tiny minority of people. I personally came here after giving up on WoW during Shadowlands and I could not be happier. FF14's design choices are globally far superior to almost every aspect of WoW (with a few tiny exceptions like the glamour dresser system). I play FF14 BECAUSE it is not WoW, I left because of all those old bad decisions. Is FF14 a completely perfect game in all regards? Hell no, there is no perfect game but I have an adult brain and can accept that 80-90% of the game is fantastic and there is no point having a hissy fit flailing around in my own juices over the 20% I would do differently, especially seeing as I accept that from that 20%, 15% are simply design decisions I do not prefer and only 5% are actually issues. Better than WoW where the ratio is 40% good, 60% bad and 55% of that 60% is the devs being deliberate bastards.

[Shurrikhan]

I highly doubt, that you will see many toxic players from WoW in FF14. The toxicity generator in WoW is Mythic+ and raider.io. And there is not an equivalent in FF14 to this. So there no real reason to play FF14 for them.

The Mythic+ "toxicity" is more or less just the same stuff felt by sub-communities here who would consistently attempt to PuG, and only ever PuG, Savage or Ultimate. The complaints, too, are roughly identical: their job/spec being considered "non-meta" and therefore less likely to be accepted, their not being taken unless they have clearing experience in at least the previous tier/season, or the ilvl requirements being jacked up too high.

Across some 300+ runs over the last 6 years, I had... 3 runs that felt at all toxic. 5 runs only if you include just one player in either party being a jerk and holding the group hostage in a tank ego-trip (and our quickly restarting with a replacement some 6 minutes later, even sticking around to make up for the one keystone level the keybearer had lost due to said singular jerk) and a DPS being less than tactful in his advice to a healer who hadn't yet learned how to weave in damage-dealing.

Raider.io, meanwhile, was just an achievement score, a sum of one's relevant clear progress and an incredibly reasonable metric by which to gauge your progress or find people at a similar place in familiarity with the given content. Nothing about that score itself was toxic.


Moreover... people can enjoy both challenging light party in one game and, say, the story of another even if said game has no challenging light party content. These things do happen.

[Ralphe2449]

The Mythic+ "toxicity" is more or less just the same stuff felt by sub-communities here who would consistently attempt to PuG, and only ever PuG, Savage or Ultimate. The complaints, too, are roughly identical: their job/spec being considered "non-meta" and therefore less likely to be accepted, their not being taken unless they have clearing experience in at least the previous tier/season, or the ilvl requirements being jacked up too high.

Back in Shb people were quite quick to mention that all classes are viable including in savage since they wanted to show the difference between FF14 and other more unbalanced mmorpgs like WoW.

I am certain that during that time that of course some extreme tryhard minority of players would unironically demand optimal meta comb and moan if the player doesnt play the """meta""" class but they were nowhere near as prominent as today with class multiple class tierlist youtube vids or people a lot more frequently talking about how some classes are bad and pretend as if they dont have it they cant clear

That is absolutely something that was made worse because that tryhard metaslave unhealthy mentality came from the WoW wave and made it worse here, i didnt see anything on that level before

[IdowhatIwant]

Back in Shb people were quite quick to mention that all classes are viable including in savage since they wanted to show the difference between FF14 and other more unbalanced mmorpgs like WoW.

I am certain that during that time that of course some extreme tryhard minority of players would unironically demand optimal meta comb and moan if the player doesnt play the """meta""" class but they were nowhere near as prominent as today with class multiple class tierlist youtube vids or people a lot more frequently talking about how some classes are bad and pretend as if they dont have it they cant clear

That is absolutely something that was made worse because that tryhard metaslave unhealthy mentality came from the WoW wave and made it worse here, i didnt see anything on that level before

I have never seen this in FFXIV, except back in HW. The raiding scene was a lot different then though.

All classes are viable. Especially once MP became normalized, and TP was removed making a Bard or MCH no longer a requirement. I would say this didn't even matter before TP was removed as every DPS had goad. TP just stopped having any sort of meaningful purpose due to the early stages of our adventure into homogenization.

Some classes are in fact better and thus more viable. That is how video games work, there is typically optimization that can take place in them.

[Shurrikhan]

tryhard metaslave unhealthy mentality came from the WoW

You realize that goes back to HW, right? Then and early Stormblood were thick with it relative to WoW (short of Mythic raiding) at that time, barring jobs over much smaller performance gaps.

I have seen a few people who want FF14 to become like their old WoW home.

What is "like their old WoW home" in those examples, though? I.e., which (iteration/era of) WoW? There are many, after all. There's about as much difference between Burning Crusade and Shadowlands as between ARR (or even 1.23) and Endwalker. Much like a GW2 player wanting something from that game could (and, more likely, would) be talking about unique mount features or map-wide events, rather than advocating for the destruction of the holy (role) trinity, the "like WoW" banner could hold as varied of stuff as "I want more roleplay functionality," "I'd like more to do in the open world," or "I'd like instanced/personal housing."

The old "WoW players want to turn XIV into WoW" arguments feigns that WoW is some manner of monolith, and liked for monolithic reasons, rather than a game that has gone through many and varied forms over its 18 years of life -- much like any longtime XIV player could quickly tell you that many a job played quite differently in Heavensward or that raiding was quite different in A Realm Reborn.

[IDontPetLalas]

Aion cleric was super fun in ow pvp, but a bit broken with magic resist. Their DPS spec was really great for soloing. Speaking of other MMOs, Tera ( Manaya's Core era)had really great healers has well. Mystic and their motes and auras were imo, the most interesting healer I've ever played.

If you want to go back to ancient history, that period with MR was then capped so that MR resist was set no higher than 505 9I believe)- which is still quite high. however cleric DPS spec was not only for soloing, it was valid as a DPS in PVE - it was very decent DPS. not to mention that DPS clerics could heal in a good amount of content.

SWTOR had 2 DPS specs- burst and dot- in addition to its healing spec.

[Moonsprite]

That is not true. The incoming damage in a 5-man-content or raid in WoW is way higher than in FF14. And the bosses hit much harder in comparison. So the healers must spend more time with healing and not doing damage.



Cheers

People are obsessed with trying to compare mythic + to regular ffxiv dungeons and you literally can’t. That level of gameplay doesn’t exist in dungeons in this game. You are trying to tell me if you went into a heroic dungeon in WoW (which is equal to normal ffxiv) that you have to heal more? I doubt that. When comparing equivalent content the rotations are similar and not engaging in either game. I even said several times in other posts that the exception is higher level of content. Mythic+ is that higher level of content that again DOES NOT exist in ffxiv.

[Ralphe2449]

People are obsessed with trying to compare mythic + to regular ffxiv dungeons and you literally can’t. That level of gameplay doesn’t exist in dungeons in this game. You are trying to tell me if you went into a heroic dungeon in WoW (which is equal to normal ffxiv) that you have to heal more? I doubt that. When comparing equivalent content the rotations are similar and not engaging in either game. I even said several times in other posts that the exception is higher level of content. Mythic+ is that higher level of content that again DOES NOT exist in ffxiv.

That comparison is definitely not possible because even if they increase the numerical difficulty of ff14 dungeons they would still be nothing alike because dps classes dont have any serious utility to control how an encounter goes.

While in WoW rotations are often 3-6 brain dead buttons, the rest of the buttons are about utility/dcds that allow the encounter to be approached in very different ways, FF14 on the other hand has decided to forsake real utility and simply uses all those buttons for dps purposes, meaning all there is to do is mechanics and dps performance, while m+ in wow is mechanics+dps performance+good use of utility.

FF14 is simply not designed for m+ to work because it would need around 8-13 more buttons solely focused on forms of utility and you are gonna start running out of hotkeys by then xD