Pandæmonium story

[Lepus_Aetherius]

5.0's description of the Ancients is entirely through Emet-Selch's heavily biased point of view, after spending millenia looking back through rose-tinted glasses. In 6.0 we actually go back and see them for ourselves.

That's a good point, thanks

[Lauront]

5.0's description of the Ancients is entirely through Emet-Selch's heavily biased point of view, after spending millenia looking back through rose-tinted glasses. In 6.0 we actually go back and see them for ourselves.

TBH, I don't really see it as dissonant with what he shows us in Amaurot at all. So whatever the bias, they still emerge as a relatively idyllic society, afaic. Compared to mother dearest and some of her tall tales, including that post-Elpis flash forward scene, it's positively photographic memory by comparison... I think it's more that the OP may have forgotten aspects of 5.0 and 6.0.

石川夏子, the head writer of 5.0-6.0, calls him "the first to think about sorrow and the first to offer a different opinion in that world. And because he was the first, he failed completely, and Hermes' failure left the people of Etheirys with the earliest 'blemish'"

I'm going to question if they've even played through their own game if that's the case.

[Skyborne]

石川夏子, the head writer of 5.0-6.0, calls him "the first to think about sorrow and the first to offer a different opinion in that world. And because he was the first, he failed completely, and Hermes' failure left the people of Etheirys with the earliest 'blemish'"

This game's writing and lore is just all over the place...

(I mean, I knew this before, but Endwalker was the most in my face about it)

[Rulakir]

"Blemish" is a Hell of a way to describe the near obliteration of his race, which then prompted Venat to all but finish the job.

This seems to be another case of what's in the writers' heads doesn't translate into the game. I felt this way in 5.0 as well where important context of Emet's thought processes had to be found in interviews. Also, as others have said (repeatedly), the quests simply don't support that Hermes was the first or only Ancient to experience sorrow.

[Lepus_Aetherius]

It seems that her words are quite controversial.... Very interesting. I can excerpt the interview and translate it, I will post it later.

[Lepus_Aetherius]

Q:Looking back, the "Hydaelyn and Zodiark chapter", which has been written from the 2.0 era to the present, has finally come to an end. What are the elements that make you think "it's great to be finished".



石川: I joined the development team in the 2.0 era , when "Hydaelyn's Call" appeared at the beginning of the game. I think it's interesting because instead of "witness, hear, feel", it's "hear, feel, think" - The most important thing is to "think". So when it was decided that I would be responsible for writing the 6.0 version of the play, I decided that I would respond to Hydaelyn's request at that time. Not just to simply witness and hear, and then accept it with half-understanding, but to have room for self-explanation. The players had already had a variety of experiences and I wanted them to provoke thought. That's why I have prepared several "unanswered questions" in important parts of the 6.0 storyline.



--Indeed, there are many scenes that provoke the players to think.



石川: For example, was Hermes wrong in what he did? If not, was it the first human step? On the other hand, was it Meteion who was wrong, or was it the people who instilled despair in Meteion. Is it a bad thing to be desperate at heart. I tried to ask these unanswered questions to the players. It is also possible to take this format because FF14 is long term update. It's because of the countless journeys players have taken through the vast FF14 world that these questions make sense. So I think it's great to be able to "think" about it in this "final journey".

Whether Hermes' failure is a failure or a process of human beings becoming stronger, I think everyone has a different answer in mind. Hermes is also one of the characters who asks the player questions.
He spends his life asking questions about the way humans exist, as he says, "...to judging people..." ...... A character like this would be difficult to write in a single player game. The tighter the story, the greater the weight of each character. So you have to add a separate rise and fall to move the story along. The characters are introduced and then there are a few vignettes that lead to answers.
But Hermes is just one of the characters in the larger story of FF14, just one of many life forms. It is for this reason that the "confusion" and "questioning" of his own failure to find answers is carried out, only to show that life is not always positive, nor does it always have a perfect ending, and that the anguish is endless.
A similar level of preoccupation, or the bitterness of the reality that "there is nothing you can do in life", is symbolic of EW. As a member of the writing team, I found Hermes to be a rare and interesting character.

The same goes for Meteion. Having travelled to countless planets and witnessed despair before becoming that way. It could also be interpreted as Meteion just swallowing all the despair, and it's not her who is at fault.

[Rokke]

I don't remember anything stating that the Lahabrea in Elpis is the same as the Lahabrea we killed.

Our/Emet's Lahabrea was known for his use of fire magic and his masterwork was the finalized phoenix concept. P3's boss was the penultimate attempt at making a phoenix and right before the fight Eric and Themis have a conversation about Lahabrea, Eric's dad, semi-recently completing the final phoenix. Between this establishing the timeline of Emet's sidestory + Lahabrea's near exclusive use of fire magic in every fight we have against him...Eric is not our Laha, his dad is.

[EaraGrace]

In the 5.0-6.0 stories, the Ancients have been portrayed as god-like characters with creation magicks who have infinite productivity and a near-infinite lifespan - everyone seeks common ground and there is no fighting, so their social structure as well as their emotions should be completely different from humans, which is why I like Hermes : He is the first ancient to show human emotions and values, to reveal a non-divine side.

I believe you’ve misunderstood. What Hermes was first in doing was taking that first “human step” but that doesn’t mean he’s the only one with human qualities. The Ascians are rife with emotion and failings, the only difference is they possess the means to reshape reality.

Back to the point: the ancients had the "most progressive" society, but on the other hand, the story of Pandæmonium absurdly shows us the typical pre-modernism side of this society, a single-parent family that is common in reality. -The mother raises her child alone and then dies, the son resents his workaholic father who doesn't care about the family, and then the ancients fight over trivial and personal matters blah blah ......
This is ridiculous and I think it overturns the portrayal of ancient civilization in the previous stories, I can't find any hint of the "progressiveness" of ancient civilization and the "divinity" that was supposed to be prevalent in ancient societies that is often mentioned in the 5.0 stories ...... and this makes Hermes, the main character, look like a depressed sociopath in the previous stories

It was the Unsundered who claimed their society was perfect, a claim Endwalker goes to great lengths to demonstrate was false. They may have reached a point of development that was advanced, but that says nothing of their progressiveness in other ways. They lacked war, not because they rose above it but because they never needed to fight for resources. They never dealt with unexpected mortality because for most that wasn’t a problem due to their inherent power (though some did face it as we’ve seen in Pandaemonium). Hermes and Erichthonios are symptoms of this issue, as are all the Ancients who bore suffering in the shadows.

With all this in mind, I think we need to understand that metaphorical and literal interpretations will differ and we shouldn’t just assume Ishikawa was referring to the latter rather than the former. He’s likely not the first to ever suffer in the Ancient world, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t the first to think about sorrow.

He’s the first to put a voice to those issues and the first to take action, creating the Meteia and sending them out to ask of what other beings live for. In all the examples of Ancients struggling there’s never any indication that they feel the need to take action, Hermes is the only one who does, the only one who says plainly “this is a problem we need to address.” He’s the first to incorporate sorrow into his understanding of the Ancient world and life in general. That’s what makes him special.

[Lepus_Aetherius]

......
吉田: Although we were trying to give players more of a taste of the horrors of the Ancients, we didn't expect many people to think they were good. "It's a beautiful and wonderful thing to return to aetherial sea at the end of the duty....or to be able to create beings with souls at your own discretion and just destroy them if they're slightly problematic and bring them back to the idea." We depict a lot of this kind of difficulty in judging right from wrong, but if you think about it dispassionately, I think it's actually very scary. I would have liked to have seen a few more perspectives on this, but it's also possible that Emet, Hythlodaeus, and Venat shine too brightly.

Hermes' statement "I will judge mankind in the name of Hermes." This statement is, in a sense, extremely fair. In fact, in the 5.0 version of the story, Emet has carried out this so-called "judge" several times, being betrayed many times and killing countless people each time, and Emet, wanting to redeem his divided companions and loved ones, makes his final judge with straightforward emotion. From this point of view, Hermes' judge is relatively objective. So it was surprising to me that Emet's 'judge' was accepted by everyone, while Hermes' 'judge' was resented by everyone.



石川: Hermes is fair, but he's not driven by emotion like Emet is ...... It's probably hard for players to relate to him.



吉田: Yes, for us Emet is much easier to empathize with.



石川: After all, wanting to get your companion back is the most direct human emotion

[Jeeqbit]

I think the definition of perfect they are using is everyone being intellectuals as if professors who are never angry or dismissive of others' arguments and love civilized debate. Being so intellectual, they are above things like fear of death and petty dramas. Yet Hermes finds a way to participate in these things within the confines of them being intellectual, open minded and logical conclusions.

What the story allows for among the ancients is different personalities and interests. Each soul has a different color like ours being a soul that is driven by adventure, so some souls could go to dark places within the confines of these perfect traits like Hermes managed to.