A collection of issues raised by community.

[Pinkie_Pie]

Sorry to tell you this, but if you are a healer getting focused down and piled by 3 DPS, you should not stand a chance. It's a part of PVP. When a DPS unloads their full burst on a healer only for them to just shrug it off and go on with their day, there's something fundamentally wrong with that. Even worse when it's THREE DPS using your example.

I've been playing PVP in various MMORPG's for a long time. In most of those games, any healer let alone any class in general would absolutely salivate to have an ability even half as powerful as Guard. 90% mitigation and full immunity on demand with only a 30 second cooldown that can be countered by only a few jobs is extremely powerful.

I'll concede this then... Instead Guard either gets nerfed to a 60 second cooldown, or its mitigation gets reduced to 75%. The full CC immunity is fine.

No, other games wouldn't salivate to guard cause guard just locks you out from doing anything for 5 seconds, that's like a free stun if you stay in it for the full duration.

If you've been playing PvP in various MMORPGS then you would know that others games have many defensive cooldowns and abilities for EVERY class and job. Example

WoW: Priests have pain suppression to reduce damage by 75%, USABLE while stunned and if they don't have that up they also have a passive called Focused Will, a passive level 34 Discipline and Holy priest ability. Upon receiving any melee attack, it grants a 15% damage reduction buff lasting 8 seconds. This effect stacks up to 2 times for a potential 30% damage reduction buff AND SHIELDS which absorbs a good chuck of damage(unlike our game shields). Shadow priests spec have Dispersion is the main defensive cooldown for Shadow Priests. This reduces all damage done to you by 60%, USABLE WHILE STUNNED with a 2 minute cooldown with many other tools to reduce damage by *alot*

Druids have barkskin, reduces damage by *alot* usable while stunned and when they get out of stun they can go bear form which can increases their armor to insane tank levels to tank 3-4 dps beating on them WHILE having HoT effects on them.

Star wars also have defensive cooldowns, many of them activate by getting stunned or able to be used *WHILE* stunned and many other defensive cooldowns layed on top of that.

ESO have blocks, shields, and dodge rolls with a passive skill to reduce damage by alot while blocking.

Even the one of the oldest game, Dark age of Camelot, a healer didn't just fall over and die when 3-4 dps jumped on them, they had cooldowns and abilities to stay alive.

HERE'S OUR GAME:
5 people target one person, Hes stunned, Hes is silenced, he purifies it, OH LOOK hes dead. (Is that fun to him or his team? No) OR it could go something like this, He goes in, 5 people target him, HE pops guard and all CC'S AND DAMAGE wasted and hes fine, ALL countered cause he saw their zerg tactic play so now their team is at a disadvantage cause he read them. Do you know how frustrating it is when everyone is scared to go engage cause they know they will pop like a grape within 1.5 and die while spamming recoup. That's why the devs added guard for that reason. No amount of healing from a healer and spamming recoup will save you from dying while you have 5 people focus targeting you

Those said MMO's I talked about have MANY abilities and skills to avoid getting zerged down and killed in 2-3 seconds, ours is only ONE skill, Guard and its not that great due to snapback thus making all the damage going through even though you activate it and if you sit there in guard for 5 seconds while at 5% health, one skill can pretty much kill you as soon as you leave it. Those said mmo's people only died when all their resources were used up and they were caught without them. If zerging a healer or *someone* was a viable strat with no counter then that's not good gameplay and would be frustrating to anyone who died by that said strat.

[drtasteyummy]

snip

First of all, you are comparing a 75% reduction buff that has 3 minute CD to a 90% damage reduction buff with CC immunity and the ability to hold the crystal in place with what like 30 seconds CD? Also WoW hasn't the tickrate of a fkn potato. Furthermore, people have Guard on top of their mobility and their own defensive skill + often a damage reduction debuff. If you get ganged on by 5 people then make use of line of sight, of course this is different when you're melee which is why melee should have better def CDs. This is the exact reason why there is such a gigantic disconnect in class balance.

[Bureda]

Anyone that's being focused should die. It's that simple.

- Being chained CC'd without any diminishing returns is cancer, especially since in this game you don't need to co-ordinate cc.
- Silence having 0 counterplay is cancer.
- White Mage being the devs favourite is also cancer.

Also, let's not use WoW as a standard for balance. In that game you go to sleep and wait for healing dampening to get to 95% before you can kill someone because healers are so overpowered. In fact, healers in that game outside of the dampening can literally take on 40 people in world pvp. However, WoW does have a good diminishing return mechanic that punishes people for mindlessly using same type of cc or not co-ordinating.

[Saucy_Jack]

Lowering the effectiveness of CC wouldn’t be a bad idea, but you’d have to make other adjustments with it. Can’t have everyone be able to recuperate their whole ass health bar or be as bulky relative to incoming damage numbers if CC is toned down a lot. Nerf one or both of those other things with it to a degree

Nerfing CC by itself (without other changes) lowers kill pressure across the board, and isn’t what you want, since then you have wet noodle fights and situations where players can’t be punished for bad plays. You should lower survivability a bit too so that sources of kill pressure just gets shifted over to focus targeting, positioning, LoS, playing around cooldowns, and playing around map effects, rather than just being diminished overall.

[Tobias_Azuryon]

Nerfing CC by itself (without other changes) lowers kill pressure across the board, and isn’t what you want, since then you have wet noodle fights and situations where players can’t be punished for bad plays.

CC should be a means to SECURE a kill not a zerg tactic to ensure it in every encounter. The issue with a lot of the discussion of "Everyone can recuperate their whole health bar" is ignoring teh fact that even without recuperate, potions are a thing as well as healers on top of the fact that if you get 2v1'd it doesn't matter they can destroy you anyways (which is sort of how it should be, you shouldn't be able to easily take on 2 at once, thus the team sport).

Everyone acts like suddenly the games would drag on forever (and that it would be a bad thing if the opposing team couldn't jsut stunlock/roflstomp you in the first encounter) if you couldn't ALWAYS stun lock people in place and burst them down while they sit there unable to use any of their skills. It's almost as if people want to talk about skilled play in a game until they can't just burst people down with spammable cc, but I won't touch on that tangent here.
Kill pressure can come in multiple ways, in fact it already exists to some degree but CC trumps it in every degree due to just how crazy powerful it is, which means the "meta" ends up being all cc based. Things like SCH for example reducing your self healing would become more useful in group encounters, actually having to THINK about your silence/stuns instead of WHM/RDM/WAR just aoe stunning everyone every 15-30seconds. Adding Skilled play to cc doesn't "nerf" it, it just means you can't just slam the button on cooldown or wait til they're about to heal or on the crystal to spam it on them so that they sit there and take your beating.

SGE has damage vuln and high damage but it's made irrelevant by cast times + Pnuema being a giant red target that says "stun me please." Some classes have dots that end up meaning almost nothing in the long run because they're either burst to death or they're not going to die with elixir and recuperate. When AST has instant repeatable CC, NIN has instant repeatable CC, WAR has 15s between (AOE)CC, WHM has an uncurable CC plus AOE cc every 60s (along with massive damage), Monk can stun you before Purify comes off cooldown a second time due to 15s refresh timer, etc etc you create a system that isn't "Skill" or "pressure" - It's cheap.

I'd rather have the meta shift to being able to punish CC like for example moves used within it that do more potency or moves that break it like rough divide/dashes/etc than keep watching BRD/RDM/WHM/WAR/etc just apply stuns/silence/etc at range so you're stuck wondering why your class doesn't have it or can't defend against it properly. The extra factor in this is that the characters with the most dps are least likely to secure a kill due to their lack of CC. as SGE I can do crazy damage but because they can get by with a sLIVER of health they can possibly survive breaking line of sight or something because I can't stun them at length or worse they stunned me when I was about to kill them.

It either needs to be everyone has some form of CC (remove AOE stun completely, it's broken with how burst damage is in this game currently especially with busted limit breaks) or CC needs to be nerfed in order for it to be balanced. There is a grey area between "no kill pressure" and "I'm just sitting here not hitting buttons because I can't." With burst being what it is if people focus a target no amount of guard in the world is going to keep them alive, which means team organization and focusing on a target is still important without some classes having ridiculous tools at their disposal like RDM being able to bind/silence in an entire hallway and constantly stay out of reach while also being able to mitigate damage it takes.

I don't think "a lot" of adjustments would even need to take place for this to work, and I'm still a fan of purify being on charges and/or items on the field giving you extra charges, etc. Hell make potions get rid of them or something so I don't have to watch a dps literally get burst down to almost nothing with me standing on top of a potion and them just walk into it and be back at full health so now I get ganked. That'd be nice.

[Saucy_Jack]

??? I literally just advocated for reducing CC and survivability exactly so that CC is more of a finisher, so not sure why I just had a novel written in response berating me about it with the exact same conclusion. In what world does it make any sense to be fixated on nerfing only CC instead of fixing several problems at once/cutting off issues before they happen instead of having to complain about it to be fixed for four months before it actually gets fixed.

Also lmao why would we consider healers and potions being considered huge in-fight sustain when pure supports aren’t even a thing in this game and (unlike recuperate) potions can’t be used during a fight

[OinOdin]

this isn't an issue ... probably ... but question, do we have some exploit in FL (Onsal Hakair) when one player can ignore dmg interrupt and capture point ???

or ppl get so bad that we can't interrupt one random third team player capturing a point when two other teams fight on it ???

[Nanne]

- Silence having 0 counterplay is cancer.

Silence can be Purified

[Bureda]

Silence can be Purified

Half the time Silence silences my Purify thanks to the spaghetti code. Come to Phoenix Nanne, give me your luck.

[jrollins89]

Jobs with two types of CC when not squishy - self explanatory.

Erm... No, I don't think that is "self explanatory". Please elaborate.

Are you implying that it is the tanks that should not have multiple CCs abilities in their kit, but the squishy jobs should? If so, I'd suggest you try out pretty much any role-based competitive game (particularly Overwatch and League of Legends, as Crystaline Conflict seems to take influences most from those two). Tanks are generally THE "CC" role in most other notable games. That's because if you make a role with low damage, high durability, and no CC then there is very little reason to ever target that character until the rest of their team is dead.

In fact, that is the primary issue with Dark Knight at moment; their biggest use is to just sit on the Crystal. The problem is that DRK is never really a threat. Their 1 CC is laughable and their damage is next to non-existent without a well aimed, full health, surprise LB (which also costs the DRK a full health bar). At upper ranks when players are a bit better at target selection the CC-less DRK simply becomes dead weight. Thus an enemy White Mage can also just sit on the crystal with the DRK and facetank them while being useful for the rest of their team. I imagine tank or healer junctioned GNB suffer from much the same issue, though it's hard to say since I never see them anymore.



Unless I am completely misconstruing what you meant by "Jobs with two types of CC when not squishy - self explanatory."?