A collection of issues raised by community.

[Teno]

I'd welcome the CC changes, it's just too much atm. Purify needs a buff and polymorph needs a nerf, it's almost like an LB at this point. And I abuse it like a madman.

[Balmung_Griffin]

The more I think about purify, the more I'm convinced that they tested jobs 1v1 and disregarded that some horrendous team composition are possible.

A NIN can double stun you and a WHM can follow up with a poly and you're dead. Now imagine that plus a WAR and a SAM.

And then we have jobs with 0 CC, are they really that much stronger to compensate that?

[Tobias_Azuryon]

The more I think about purify, the more I'm convinced that they tested jobs 1v1 and disregarded that some horrendous team composition are possible.

Yeah I broke this down on another thread too:

I don't mind dying to DPS, that makes sense, but silence > stun > Silence > stun > stun is so awful. If they only had a few skills to use cc with I'd understand but when WAR has aoe stun every 15s and WHM LB....exists it means that no matter how good you're doing or how you time your purify because the classes will be able to immediately stun you again. With Purfiy being 30s that means WAR has two chances to stun you in a single window.

War can Rend twice.
PLD can shield bash twice.
NIN can Raiju twice.
AST can heavy/bind twice.
MNK can six star twice.
SAM can stun then silence you.
BRD can Silence then Bind you.

This doesn't take into account multiple people vs 1 player, WHM LB, or other possible combinations.

That means that 7 classes already render purify basically meaningless, EVEN IF it worked properly right now.

This was regarding putting purify on a two charge system to help keep the server ping from screwing you constantly.

[Snowborn]

People won't be happy until some jobs are completely destroyed. SAM was already hard to play seriously because of how easy counterplay against them is--especially after the nerf. Literally just hit them with CC when you have a Chiten debuff and they have LB up. You know when they have LB up based on match time and they can LB twice in an entire match. If you're having issues with this, it's a lack of skill. SAM are not OP in ranked.

My main issue is still that it's far too easy for ranged players to sit back and deal damage and focus melees. Defensive CD's basically make it to where you can stall a melee almost indefinitely so it doesn't matter even if you could beat someone in 1v1; if you charge them because they're focusing you they will just pop guard and heal long enough that someone will help them. CC when groupfighting is too strong.

What should PVP work like is a bigger question, and I don't CC really has a theory of the case there. The mode is far too manic in terms of pacing to be tactical; skills need more pruning.

[Iyrnwaen]

People won't be happy until some jobs are completely destroyed. SAM was already hard to play seriously because of how easy counterplay against them is--especially after the nerf. Literally just hit them with CC when you have a Chiten debuff and they have LB up. You know when they have LB up based on match time and they can LB twice in an entire match. If you're having issues with this, it's a lack of skill. SAM are not OP in ranked.

While job balance is much closer than folks like to admit, if SAM was that trivial to deal with, it wouldn't be the job of choice for so many top ranked players.
The problem with SAM is less the frequency with which they actually wipe teams, and more the psychological effect SAM has on the other team if they hold their LB.
Timidity loses matches, and a SAM with their LB lit up makes everyone walk on eggshells.

Dealing with Chiten/Zantetsuken is indeed super easy... 1v1, in a vacuum. That's not how matches work.
Most jobs cause intermittent AoE damage whether they want to or not, and most matches are decided in hotly contested, low readability CQC over the crystal.
Focus is as much a vital, limited resource in PvP as HP and MP, and SAM drains it rapidly just by having a full LB bar and existing.
The other 4 players on the SAM's team don't stop hitting me while I try to determine whether I'll get one-shot if I press Macrocosmos.

If I had my way, the 6.11 nerfs to SAM would be reverted and Zantetsuken CD would be reduced,
but Kuzushi would only be applied by Chiten when the SAM is the target of a direct attack.
There's nothing wrong with SAM outplaying folks and blowing them up with a counterattack when they get baited,
but a BRD should be able to fire Apex Arrow without worrying that it's going to go off at a weird angle because of server ticks and clip a SAM who will instantly kill him.

[Snowborn]

While job balance is much closer than folks like to admit, if SAM was that trivial to deal with, it wouldn't be the job of choice for so many top ranked players.
The problem with SAM is less the frequency with which they actually wipe teams, and more the psychological effect SAM has on the other team if they hold their LB.
Timidity loses matches, and a SAM with their LB lit up makes everyone walk on eggshells.

Dealing with Chiten/Zantetsuken is indeed super easy... 1v1, in a vacuum. That's not how matches work.
Most jobs cause intermittent AoE damage whether they want to or not, and most matches are decided in hotly contested, low readability CQC over the crystal.
Focus is as much a vital, limited resource in PvP as HP and MP, and SAM drains it rapidly just by having a full LB bar and existing.
The other 4 players on the SAM's team don't stop hitting me while I try to determine whether I'll get one-shot if I press Macrocosmos.

If I had my way, the 6.11 nerfs to SAM would be reverted and Zantetsuken CD would be reduced,
but Kuzushi would only be applied by Chiten when the SAM is the target of a direct attack.
There's nothing wrong with SAM outplaying folks and blowing them up with a counterattack when they get baited,
but a BRD should be able to fire Apex Arrow without worrying that it's going to go off at a weird angle because of server ticks and clip a SAM who will instantly kill him.

I think I agree with most of this, but there is an easy fix. If a SAM has LB, target them. Nuke them. They will go down. In the current state of the game, this is trivially easy.

Anyone who says SAM is still an A tier job doesn't play SAM.

Unless they can hit 2 people with their barrier attack (which is hard to do; it's casted and people wiggle/separate), their only mitigation is a 30 second cooldown which lasts 5 seconds and is a paltry 25%. SAM have to be front and center to attack. They are super easy to kill if your team can focus.

[drtasteyummy]

I think I agree with most of this, but there is an easy fix. If a SAM has LB, target them. Nuke them. They will go down. In the current state of the game, this is trivially easy.

Anyone who says SAM is still an A tier job doesn't play SAM.

Unless they can hit 2 people with their barrier attack (which is hard to do; it's casted and people wiggle/separate), their only mitigation is a 30 second cooldown which lasts 5 seconds and is a paltry 25%. SAM have to be front and center to attack. They are super easy to kill if your team can focus.

SAM is still a A Tier it's just the S Tier is very dominant (RDM/DRG)

if you want to buff SAM then top 2 prio would be

- reduce casttime, it's so long you can ride an arthritis turtle backwards out of range

- namikiri shouldn't be removed when you use a different main skill

the rest is absolutely fine, SAM needs the nuclear Zantetsuken threat otherwise he's a perma target
and SAM blows up real nice with the recent def nerfs

[Bureda]

People won't be happy until some jobs are completely destroyed. SAM was already hard to play seriously because of how easy counterplay against them is--especially after the nerf. Literally just hit them with CC when you have a Chiten debuff and they have LB up. You know when they have LB up based on match time and they can LB twice in an entire match. If you're having issues with this, it's a lack of skill. SAM are not OP in ranked.

My main issue is still that it's far too easy for ranged players to sit back and deal damage and focus melees. Defensive CD's basically make it to where you can stall a melee almost indefinitely so it doesn't matter even if you could beat someone in 1v1; if you charge them because they're focusing you they will just pop guard and heal long enough that someone will help them. CC when groupfighting is too strong.

What should PVP work like is a bigger question, and I don't CC really has a theory of the case there. The mode is far too manic in terms of pacing to be tactical; skills need more pruning.

169% sure SAM is still A+ Tier even after the 'nerfs'.

Updated Monk on main thread: Inconsistency with proccing pressure points

[Lammas]

Purify really needs to be more responsive than it is now and the resilience buff on it needs to actually work. Purify itself is so slow that by the time it goes off you might already be dead even if you're trying to do Purify > Guard or Purify > Recuperate. You never get to the second skill because it takes a good second for the skill to actually cleanse the debuff.
I'd also like to add that I don't understand why the resilience buff is even conditional. Why can you even press the button when you're not CC'd if it does nothing? Just allow me to pop it for the Resilience non-conditionally if I want to take that risk.

Guard feels a bit slow to go off as well although it might be due to enemies snapshotting their skills before my guard went up. Not sure about this one.

I never thought about it but I do agree that the elixir recast should be a bit longer. It's also kinda meh that it can lock in like other casts in the game when you're slidecasting: you can hit someone at the tail end of their cast and it doesn't matter because the effect has already snapshotted. You hit them while the cast bar is still clearly there, they take damage and then right after their health fills up. I don't think it should take forever but 7 or even 8 seconds sounds pretty reasonable to me to have a bit more of a chance of preventing it especially when considering the effect snaps in tiny bit before the cast is finished.

[Bureda]

Purify really needs to be more responsive than it is now and the resilience buff on it needs to actually work. Purify itself is so slow that by the time it goes off you might already be dead even if you're trying to do Purify > Guard or Purify > Recuperate. You never get to the second skill because it takes a good second for the skill to actually cleanse the debuff.
I'd also like to add that I don't understand why the resilience buff is even conditional. Why can you even press the button when you're not CC'd if it does nothing? Just allow me to pop it for the Resilience non-conditionally if I want to take that risk.

Guard feels a bit slow to go off as well although it might be due to enemies snapshotting their skills before my guard went up. Not sure about this one.

I never thought about it but I do agree that the elixir recast should be a bit longer. It's also kinda meh that it can lock in like other casts in the game when you're slidecasting: you can hit someone at the tail end of their cast and it doesn't matter because the effect has already snapshotted. You hit them while the cast bar is still clearly there, they take damage and then right after their health fills up. I don't think it should take forever but 7 or even 8 seconds sounds pretty reasonable to me to have a bit more of a chance of preventing it especially when considering the effect snaps in tiny bit before the cast is finished.

I think what they had envisioned with Elixir is that you make a conscious decision to remove yourself out of a fight for a meaningful time to heal up before returning to it with full resources. At the moment, you can just go in, damage a bunch, run around the corner and just use an Elixir. It helps with consistent brawls but there's hardly any punishment in 5 seconds.

Edited Main Thread: Reaper, users want a way to not be interrupted so easily so they can be viable long enough to do the damage.