Healers need an overhaul

[Silverbane]

Not a single person should have to subject oneself to poor play by other players just to enjoy their chosen job.

That's like insisting you be able to drive without encountering sub par drivers, or ride public transit without having to smell sweaty people and deal with drunks.

It is the job of the developers to make sure the core gameplay is enjoyable at all levels and facets of the game whether its causal or hardcore, and if they're unable to or unwilling to then they're in the wrong career.

First, you can't please all the people all the time.
Second, the job of the developers is to maintain the game's profitability. Everything else is just a means to that end.

[ty_taurus]

Well we disagree on that. And some of the other replies indisputably are personal attacks.



Mine, for how I've been playing the game since 2015.
I don't know what the "hardcore" players need: I don't have their perspective, and I'll do them the courtesy of not pretending I do. It would be nice if they returned that favor.



If I was ever "scared" of people having low HP, it was years ago.
These days, I'm just amused when, for example, a tank dies because he ran out of my range or LoS'd me in a W2W trash pull. It's all part of the fun, and how people learn.

Besides, in the immortal words of Vince Lombardi, "the best defense is a good offense." Like dead DPS, dead mobs do no damage. So if the tank dies in a W2W pull but all the mobs die too, as happened in a recent pub run with me on SCH and two decent RPRs on DPS, that seems a fair trade.



Maybe you need to pug more. There's nothing monotonous about running with tanks and/or DPS who don't know their kit, don't know the mechanics, or both. I don't even find it frustrating, because I don't have high expectations for pugging, and certainly don't expect a fast clear.

The person who initially replied to you began by acknowledging your opinion and used that as a jumping off point to contrast against the people who claim to not be dedicated healer players and then proceed to write off dedicated healer feedback. You're taking these points as very personal when it was not meant to be about you specifically, though you seem to have used that as an opportunity to assume my level of experience with pug groups. I don't really give a shit, but this seems like a very hypocritical stance you're taking.

I don't know what the "hardcore" players need: I don't have their perspective, and I'll do them the courtesy of not pretending I do. It would be nice if they returned that favor.

You quoted my post yet seemed to ignore the part where I said: "On the contrary, the majority desire to raise the skill floor to make healing actually easier for new or casual healers while expanding on the gameplay for experienced healers to have fun in all levels of content." If anyone understands what you and other casual healers need, it would actually be us, the dedicated healers who have a much more detailed understanding of how healing performs and have been making suggestions throughout the forums for years on how to actually make healing easier while allowing it to have depth and engagement. Sure, many of the suggestions made are not wholly perfect, but that's a consequence of being individual people--not a team who can discuss and bounce ideas around--as well as not having the means to test and prototype these ideas. But we by in large understand what the issues are and know what needs to be addressed even if we aren't always on the same page on how to address them.

[QooEr]

First, you can't please all the people all the time.

you cant please all the people all the time but with 4 different jobs in a role they should at least try to cover their breadth of playstyles to cater to. they almost all feel the same with the exception of ast, which gets to play slightly different for 15 seconds every 2 minutes.


if you like current sage, sure, thats fine. but what do people that used to like their healer job back in stormblood do ? the playstyle of healers before shb does not exist anymore and its why healers have been so dissatisfied since.

[Silverbane]

I wasn’t aware that I told the developers to make me more of a damage dealer than a healer.

SE didn't make you anything. They made a Sage class that, by your account, is more a damage dealer than a healer.
And you choose to run a Sage.

To reiterate what I said before: I enjoy running a Sage, regardless of how people categorize the class.
And I enjoy it more than I did WHM, which seems more like the "pure healer" you want to play.
Never expected that, BTW: I outleveled the MSQs so I picked up Sage just to "not waste the XP" from the MSQs.
Glad I did.

[HyoMinPark]

SE didn't make you anything. They made a Sage class that, by your account, is more a damage dealer than a healer.
And you choose to run a Sage.

To reiterate what I said before: I enjoy running a Sage, regardless of how people categorize the class.
And I enjoy it more than I did WHM, which seems more like the "pure healer" you want to play.
Never expected that, BTW: I outleveled the MSQs so I picked up Sage just to "not waste the XP" from the MSQs.
Glad I did.

All the healers play like a damage dealer… this isn’t exclusive to SGE.

[ty_taurus]

I wrote:
There's nothing monotonous about running with tanks and/or DPS who don't know their kit, don't know the mechanics, or both. I don't even find it frustrating, because I don't have high expectations for pugging, and certainly don't expect a fast clear.



Go out of my way? You mean, by doing duty roulettes?

As in all of life, you can either find a way to enjoy what the game offers you, or not.
Totally up to you.

Oh well, I guess nothing in the world should ever be fixed or improved. Your car broken down? Seems like you just don't know how to enjoy it as it is.

[Silverbane]

you cant please all the people all the time but with 4 different jobs in a role they should at least try to cover their breadth of playstyles to cater to.

If you want all four "healers" to be viable "healers" in all the content, that seems pretty difficult.

Let's say, hypothetically, WHM becomes a "pure healer" and SGE stays what someone here called a "gimped damage dealer."
Can you have content that that requires the (assumed) higher healing output of the WHM, that is still doable with the SGE?
And can you have content that require the DPS contribution of the SGE, but is still doable on the WHM?
Perhaps you can, but it seems a lot more difficult to do than what the situation we have now.

Of course, you could always take the easy path and dumb everything down so that the higher heals of the WHM and the DPS contribution of the SGE are never required, but I don't think anyone wants that.

And then there's the go-hear-kill-this quests in the MSQ: do we eliminate them, gimp them for pure healers, or what?
After all, while arguments here seem to center on group and endgame content, solo MSQ progression is still a major part of the game.

[Silverbane]

Oh well, I guess nothing in the world should ever be fixed or improved.

Bad argument. In this case, whether healing is broken or needs fixing is a matter of opinion, not fact.

[MisterNublet]

That's like insisting you be able to drive without encountering sub par drivers, or ride public transit without having to smell sweaty people and deal with drunks.

Amazing that you ignored the first sentence in my post about creating my own party finder groups, which allows myself to avoid those sweaty people and drunks in my party.

First, you can't please all the people all the time.
Second, the job of the developers is to maintain the game's profitability. Everything else is just a means to that end.

You're right, they "can't please all the people all the time." Right again that it is their job to maintain the profitability of the game.

Guess it'll be such a shock when players such as myself begin canceling our subscription, as I've already have done, due to being dissatisfied with the state of the game, and our feedback being constantly ignored while giving out of touch statements such as "go play ultimate".

[HyoMinPark]

If you want all four "healers" to be viable "healers" in all the content, that seems pretty difficult.

Let's say, hypothetically, WHM becomes a "pure healer" and SGE stays what someone here called a "gimped damage dealer."
Can you have content that that requires the (assumed) higher healing output of the WHM, that is still doable with the SGE?
And can you have content that require the DPS contribution of the SGE, but is still doable on the WHM?
Perhaps you can, but it seems a lot more difficult to do than what the situation we have now.

Of course, you could always take the easy path and dumb everything down so that the higher heals of the WHM and the DPS contribution of the SGE are never required, but I don't think anyone wants that.

It is pretty close to the former—you should honestly look at just how little healing healers actually do in content compared to how much time they spend dealing damage. That’s what I mean by “gimped damage dealer”, by the way: I am spending more time dealing damage as opposed to actually performing my role because healing requirements are so low.

And it’s unfortunate that the developers will not increase the damage output even just a little bit. I’m not talking constant raidwides where you have no breathing room and opportunity to deal damage. I’m just talking about a slight increase in casual content, with the increase scaling the higher you go in terms of content (e.g., Extremes, Savages, Ultimate). As it stands now, current Savages and Extremes are being cleared without healers on content. And while they’ve always been solo healed while relevant, it’s rare for them to be straight-up done without healers while the content is relevant.

And then there's the go-hear-kill-this quests in the MSQ: do we eliminate them, gimp them for pure healers, or what?
After all, while arguments here seem to center on group and endgame content, solo MSQ progression is still a major part of the game.

No one is asking for that. You aren’t actually reading what healer mains want if you think that we are asking for that.

Keep in mind that MSQ is, more or less, one-and-done unless you do New Game+. Group and endgame content is constant.