Healers need an overhaul

[Silverbane]

What I do have to do is find true meme parties ... people are going to eat stuff, people are going to die, and I will actually have to go into damage control. I finally get to be an actual healer.

Ah, see, I don't care if I run "an actual healer," whatever that means.
I run a FFXIV Sage, I enjoy running an FFXIV Sage, and whether that means I'm running "an actual healer" is irrelevant. All that matters is that, for me, it's more fun than, say, running an FFXIV Dancer or FFXIV Warrior (both of which are OK, BTW, but I enjoy Sage more.).

If I read you right, and apologies if I haven't, you set your heart on running "an actual healer," whatever that means, and then subscribed to a game that does not offer that option. Now you want the game to change to suit you. I don't think you're entitled to that, and I don't think SE is going to do that, but feel free to keep asking. Damn shame if that's making you unhappy, though, because it's your choices that created the situation.

[HyoMinPark]

Ah, see, I don't care if I run "an actual healer," whatever that means.
I run a FFXIV Sage, I enjoy running an FFXIV Sage, and whether that means I'm running "an actual healer" is irrelevant. All that matters is that, for me, it's more fun than, say, running an FFXIV Dancer or FFXIV Warrior (both of which are OK, BTW, but I enjoy Sage more.).

I also main SGE. I am dealing damage more than I am healing. And it still doesn’t change the fact that my damage rotation is boring.

If I read you right, and apologies if I haven't, you set your heart on running "an actual healer," whatever that means, and then subscribed to a game that does not offer that option. Now you want the game to change to suit you. I don't think you're entitled to that, and I don't think SE is going to do that, but feel free to keep asking. Damn shame if that's making you unhappy, though, because it's your choices that created the situation.

I wasn’t aware that I told the developers to make me more of a damage dealer than a healer. Or to give me one button to spam ad nauseam.

[Silverbane]

I wasn’t aware that I told the developers to make me more of a damage dealer than a healer.

SE didn't make you anything. They made a Sage class that, by your account, is more a damage dealer than a healer.
And you choose to run a Sage.

To reiterate what I said before: I enjoy running a Sage, regardless of how people categorize the class.
And I enjoy it more than I did WHM, which seems more like the "pure healer" you want to play.
Never expected that, BTW: I outleveled the MSQs so I picked up Sage just to "not waste the XP" from the MSQs.
Glad I did.

[HyoMinPark]

SE didn't make you anything. They made a Sage class that, by your account, is more a damage dealer than a healer.
And you choose to run a Sage.

To reiterate what I said before: I enjoy running a Sage, regardless of how people categorize the class.
And I enjoy it more than I did WHM, which seems more like the "pure healer" you want to play.
Never expected that, BTW: I outleveled the MSQs so I picked up Sage just to "not waste the XP" from the MSQs.
Glad I did.

All the healers play like a damage dealer… this isn’t exclusive to SGE.

[Banriikku]

SE didn't make you anything. They made a Sage class that, by your account, is more a damage dealer than a healer.
And you choose to run a Sage.

To reiterate what I said before: I enjoy running a Sage, regardless of how people categorize the class.
And I enjoy it more than I did WHM, which seems more like the "pure healer" you want to play.
Never expected that, BTW: I outleveled the MSQs so I picked up Sage just to "not waste the XP" from the MSQs.
Glad I did.

No, i disagree. SGE follows the same rules as all healer follow and do not do anything special. Look at the toolkit and look and the other healer's and you will see: healers are similar.
People that say SGE is the "dps healer" need to explain that stance and stop to drop it like it is "wisdom from the gods".

When your argument is based on Kardia then then i will tell you even with "BIS" Gear Kardia is nice for weak auto attack's of the Boss at best and an inconvenience at worst (overheal).
Phlegma is also not an argument because the other healer's have a skill that serves the same purpose. We can go through the whole toolkit and will come to the conclusion: healers are
too similar with a lack of identity and depth at the moment (too many OGCD heals, lack of choice, no synergy with the toolkit, sometimes the job gauge and its purpose are not needed or used because of its lack in balance).

Btw. AST is a better "pure healer" then WHM. I am not sure why so many people behave as if WHM is the only healer with big heals. In fact AST can pump more heals than a WHM. Weird, ohh wait benediction -,-*

And i dont see the point "please play with absolute potatos to have fun as a healer". In my opinion this not an argument, its an insult and tells me to F-off.

[Silverbane]

No, i disagree.

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.

Btw. AST is a better "pure healer" then WHM.

Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.

[HyoMinPark]

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.

ALL healers are gimped damage dealers. This is not exclusive to SGE. That you fail to realize how all four do far more damage dealing than they do healing shows a lack of understanding of how healers function and play in this game. In all content. The damage-to-healing ratio skew is not exclusive to Savage/Ultimate. That it’s so low in those pieces of content speaks volumes to how much you are doing in anything below it. Considering healers are barely needed for things like dungeons and Extremes, that should tell you all you need to know.

Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.

For reference, WHM is the healer that tends to do the least amount of healing compared to its direct counterpart, AST. With SCH/SGE, it also prefers not to heal—surprisingly, SGE does more of the overall healing compared to a WHM despite being advertised as the “DPS healer”. Keep in mind that this doesn’t mean that any decent SGE is still casting Dosis III 80% or more of the time.

All four healers play like DPS, but do significantly less damage than a DPS job, and have a far less interesting “rotation”. The latter is what healers are now advocating to change, since we won’t get the increased healing output that we spent the last couple years asking for.

Sigh. Is it just me, or does anyone else think this last statement is inappropriate and makes Banriikku look bad?

I’m afraid that it is just you.

Honestly, that's a problem for you, fine, acknowledged, but it isn't for me.
As long as I'm having fun playing the game, it doesn't matter that I can DPS a bit along with healing and shielding.
I find it way more fun than the tanking, ranged DPS, and melee DPS I've done.

You aren’t reading what Rolder50 said: they said that there is hardly any content that requires a healer to use their full healing kit. Things like Lilybell, Seraph, Macrocosmos, and Pneuma are overkill more often than not in content. That in an of itself is one of the problems with healers: the developer give us all these shiny new healing tools, but they don’t give us content to make use of them. Or, the content they do give, is basically just for the 1% (Ultimate).

No one here is saying that they don’t like DPSing as a healer. They’re complaining that that is ALL healer seem to do anymore. The majority of the time, that is what we are doing. And our DPS “rotation” is boring. So we want it to change.

[Silverbane]

That you fail to realize how all four do far more damage dealing than they do healing shows a lack of understanding of how healers function and play in this game.

It's not that I don't understand.
It's that I don't care that the way they function isn't the way you think they should.

I have a friend who parses (don't we all ) and I enjoy out-DPSing the DPSs on a big trash pull. Perhaps you think that's inappropriate for a healer, but as I said, I run a Sage, not a "healer." And even the Endwalker trailer emphasizes a Sage doing DPS over heals.

FFXIV offers four classes they label as "HEALERS" and apparently none of them fit your definition of that label. But me, I judge them on what they are, not on the labels people hang on them. Same as I do with people, BTW.

You wanna relabel Sage as a support class instead of a healer? Fine, as long as I still get fast queue pops.

[Nethereal]

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.

To reiterate what I said before: I enjoy running a Sage, regardless of how people categorize the class.
And I enjoy it more than I did WHM, which seems more like the "pure healer" you want to play.

Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.

I think you need to "read it again" and properly educate yourself so you can at least hold a conversation about class balance in a vacuum.

Honestly, that's a problem for you, fine, acknowledged, but it isn't for me.
As long as I'm having fun playing the game, it doesn't matter that I can DPS a bit along with healing and shielding.
I find it way more fun than the tanking, ranged DPS, and melee DPS I've done.

Why am I not surprised another "It doesn't affect me so I don't care but I'm still going to get in the way of any possible change while remaining ignorant of the actual issue so I can use my guise of ignorance as a defense in my bad faith tactics."

[Banriikku]

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.


Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.


Sigh. Is it just me, or does anyone else think this last statement is inappropriate and makes Banriikku look bad?

You are claiming some bold statements but dont want to explain ? And when pointed out you start with personal attacks. Sorry but thats how you come across.
SE decided on how we can play the healers and SE can and should change it in my opinion to a DPS rotation or BUff/Debuff mechanic. At the moment all healers play the same.