In regards to something involving the main cast

[KariTheFox]

I don't think a rambling post about siding with "bad" factions in RPG games and the difference between reality and fiction actually answers my question about whether or not people were trying to claim that the Galrean Imperial Project was a morally justified thing.

If this is really about just liking certain aesthetics or being a fan of certain characters then whatever, I don't care. Sounds like some people who don't use these forums anymore were incapable of nuance.

[Lauront]

Fandoms have long been plagued by creepy people who mistake liking or disliking a fictional character as indicative of some sort of character flaw. Which simply isn't true.

Indeed. Really looking forward to (more of?) this coming "conflict of morals" stuff. I'm sure it'll make for some fun conversations, like this one.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Oh wow more sea lions.



It’s weird how they congregate, didn’t think they usually did so.

Wait i’m confused. So are you calling yourself a sea lion because that is literally you lol. Complaining about people being rude or condescending meanwhile you posting this picture is literally….being rude and condescending. It can’t be just me noticing the hypocrisy.

[aveyond-dreams]

I don't think a rambling post about siding with "bad" factions in RPG games and the difference between reality and fiction actually answers my question about whether or not people were trying to claim that the Galrean Imperial Project was a morally justified thing.

If this is really about just liking certain aesthetics or being a fan of certain characters then whatever, I don't care. Sounds like some people who don't use these forums anymore were incapable of nuance.

There is no nation in FFXIV's world that is wholly good or bad. The Garleans are not the only nation that wanted to expand and conquer other territories. Given that they are the only race that is incapable of wielding magic in a world where everyone else can, there's something to be said about the severity of the situation they found themselves in. They viewed their military strategy as one that was crucial to their survival. It was a predator/prey situation and they stopped being prey and chose to fight back.

There were noble souls among them as well as evil ones. The same can be said about all other nations. If 1 or 2 bad apples isn't enough to spoil the other nations, then logically the same must hold for Garlemald. Gridania is arguably a more disturbing nation than Garlemald because over there it's up to the will of spirits whether you get to live there or not, and whether or not any one of those conjurers will bother to heal you. At least in Garlemald they offered people a standard path towards citizenship and you can just go and buy medicine from a store.

[KariTheFox]

There is no nation in FFXIV's world that is wholly good or bad. The Garleans are not the only nation that wanted to expand and conquer other territories. Given that they are the only race that is incapable of wielding magic in a world where everyone else can, there's something to be said about the severity of the situation they found themselves in. They viewed their military strategy as one that was crucial to their survival. It was a predator/prey situation and they stopped being prey and chose to fight back.

There were noble souls among them as well as evil ones. The same can be said about all other nations. If 1 or 2 bad apples isn't enough to spoil the other nations, then logically the same must hold for Garlemald. Gridania is arguably a more disturbing nation than Garlemald because over there it's up to the will of spirits whether you get to live there or not, and whether or not any one of those conjurers will bother to heal you. At least in Garlemald they offered people a standard path towards citizenship and you can just go and buy medicine from a store.

Condemning Garlemald's wars of aggression and expansion does not mean you have to support the expansionist policies of other nations in the setting, you could in fact - condemn all of them.

Nothing about thier situation necessitated turning into an imperialist state because we already know they existed as a peaceful republic for generations.

[aveyond-dreams]

Condemning Garlemald's wars of aggression and expansion does not mean you have to support the expansionist policies of other nations in the setting, you could in fact - condemn all of them.

Nothing about thier situation necessitated turning into an imperialist state because we already know they existed as a peaceful republic for generations.

Every nation state is going to want resources and territory. I do not blame them for pursuing these things in order to better the quality of life for their people. I'm not going to condemn any of them when it comes to this issue of survival. There's nothing to gain from self-inflicted "virtuous suffering" from tolerating another state taking away the things you need to live a functional life.

The Garlean Republic from as far as I can tell wasn't effective in safeguarding its own people and all that "peace" got them pushed all the way into an inhospitable artic wasteland. That signifies a massive failure of leadership and military competence. Being led by a council of weak senators for so long got them nowhere. Being led by someone who was as intelligent and calculating as Emet-Selch enabled them to make great advancements and superseded many other nations to the point where they were centuries ahead of everyone else.

[MikkoAkure]

This thread has certainly gone places. I don't know why we're talking about Garlemald now but...

The Garlean Republic from as far as I can tell wasn't effective in safeguarding its own people and all that "peace" got them pushed all the way into an inhospitable artic wasteland. That signifies a massive failure of leadership and military competence. Being led by a council of weak senators for so long got them nowhere. Being led by someone who was as intelligent and calculating as Emet-Selch enabled them to make great advancements and superseded many other nations to the point where they were centuries ahead of everyone else.

Emet-Selch isn't exactly the best person to praise in this situation since he said before all the way back in Stormblood that he created the Empire to purposefully shred itself apart after he "died" and that's exactly what happened. Garlemald's biggest enemy wasn't the Eorzean Alliance, Dravania, or rebels, it was itself.

He weaponized the Garlean people's frustrations and built a country that couldn't live without him. He even laughs as he says that the Garlean Civil War went far beyond his expectations. Emet-Selch wasn't any sort of hero to Garlemald, he was the worst thing that ever happened to it.

[aveyond-dreams]

This does nothing to erase the fact that the members of the royal family, Varis and Emet included, were more competent at the task of safeguarding their people's interests and improving their standards of living than the previous regime. The deliberate civil war aside, things were better off in Garlemald than in most of the world's nations.

[Theodric]

This does nothing to erase the fact that the members of the royal family, Varis and Emet included, were more competent at the task of safeguarding their people's interests and improving their standards of living than the previous regime. The deliberate civil war aside, things were better off in Garlemald than in most of the world's nations.

Yep. I'm reluctant to blame the people who were almost driven to extinction for taking the bait and going along with the Ascian's plans when they had no idea of the existence of the Ascians in the first place and were able to enjoy a comfortable life for the first time in quite a while. The lore book even states that driving the Garleans out of fertile territory and into the frozen wasteland to the north is the event that hardened them. I don't blame them - if someone forced me and my family to almost freeze to death and risk the extinction of my race in the process then to say I wouldn't be particularly pleased would be quite the understatement!

I just find it telling that any time the antagonists have a point and are put in an impossible position where they had no choice but to do 'bad' things in order to survive, they're treated as a nuisance and an inconvenience because they dared to do whatever was necessary at the time in order to survive. With none of the all too convenient 'I WIN' buttons afforded to the Scions.

So, to me at least, the idea of characters having to do whatever is necessary in order to protect their loved ones is more engaging and interesting to me than the idea of someone 'winning' just because some deluded self-proclaimed 'supreme deity' floats down from the sky and calls the player character a 'bright little spark' whilst not only bringing him back from the dead but ensuring that they can never stand to lose.

Maybe I just like the actual underdogs in a story, I suppose. I like realism, consistent 'rules' and nuance in my fantasy adventures, after all.

[MikkoAkure]

This does nothing to erase the fact that the members of the royal family, Varis and Emet included, were more competent at the task of safeguarding their people's interests and improving their standards of living than the previous regime. The deliberate civil war aside, things were better off in Garlemald than in most of the world's nations.

Walking around Garlemald in EW gives me the opposite impression. "Were" is the operative word here.

I don't think you can just put the deliberate civil war aside when it was an integral part to the whole reason for the empire to exist. It was designed by an Ascian to cause as much trouble in the world as possible in order to trigger a Calamity and then self-destruct in spectacular fashion to cause even more death and destruction. Garlemald has effectively ceased to exist as an actual power and they are now worse off than when Solus came into the picture.

Emet-Selch hated the Garleans as much as he hated everyone else and delighted in their deaths. Just as he gave the Garleans all these nice things, he also took them away. He let the curtain fall on his Solus persona and watched as the government and military culture he developed tear itself apart because he purposefully didn't name an heir and had a bunch of hot-heads as descendants.