A Toxic Culture in XIV

[LalaLlama]

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Yes, I know they trimmed out like 30% of ARR already, but, it's still a slog. It's still 50-60 hours (Combining it with the 2.1-2.X stuff) before you get to Heavensward. There's probably a lot they can cut off if they looked at it properly and still be able to keep the story exactly the same, just telling it quicker. I'm not saying I know which parts, cause I don't. I kinda numbingly dragged myself through ARR so I barely remember anything but the major parts XD

I'm not saying I want to get to end-game to play with friend's quickly, I'm saying I want to get there QUICKER. 150-200 hours to get to it is a REDICULOUS amount of time required.

You also cannot compare it to other Final Fantasy games. FFX is heavy with it's cutscene's and story, but it's still at a 50/50 trade. You get a 10 minute cutscene, followed by 10 minutes of combat etc. It doesn't lose out on the combat/gameplay aspect for the cutscene's, the cutscene's just help elevate it.

FFXIV does not do this. It gives you 80% cutscene's/walls of text, 10% running from A-B, 5% combat and 5% MMO (Duties and trials). It BARELY gives you actual gameplay and focuses HEAVILY on cutscene's.

Not once have I said they should separate it, that would remove the purpose of "story-driven". They should try to look into lessening the time-investment required to complete it. Whether that be lowering the amount of tasks in quests themselves (Like they did with the bucket thing in ARR if I remember seeing that right), combining some quests together, or making it so you can pick up several quests at once, rather than doing them one at a time, just to speed things up a little. There's no point in giving 1 quest that sends you somewhere, for you to get back and be sent to THE EXACT SAME PLACE for another quest, to it DOING IT AGAIN.

The questing wouldn't feel so "linear" if it wasn't for the fact that it's done one quest at a time. If they made it so you do 2-4 things at the same time, this'll make it so it requires less time-investment as you can complete multiple things at the same time, rather than one at a time like it is now.

[Iscah]

The questing wouldn't feel so "linear" if it wasn't for the fact that it's done one quest at a time. If they made it so you do 2-4 things at the same time, this'll make it so it requires less time-investment as you can complete multiple things at the same time, rather than one at a time like it is now.

What are you envisaging that we could do simultaneously though? It's a linear story so it would be rather messy to constantly be split between multiple parallel objectives.

Right now if you want the feeling of running multiple quests at once, at least some of the time, you can work on the major side stories (trial and raid quest lines) from each expansion and queue for one while you work through quests for the other.

The game isn't built in a way that you have nothing to do but quests and the occasional dungeon all the way to 90 before you have anything else worth doing. You can branch off into side content at any time (past level 50, at least) along the way.

[Tehmon]

You also cannot compare it to other Final Fantasy games. FFX is heavy with it's cutscene's and story, but it's still at a 50/50 trade. You get a 10 minute cutscene, followed by 10 minutes of combat etc. It doesn't lose out on the combat/gameplay aspect for the cutscene's, the cutscene's just help elevate it.

I don't know if that's true. Most random encounters are a nuisance and you begin the get real annoyed by them as you reach Mushroom Rock Road. Flee is absolutely necessary, and there's a reason it doesn't cost any gil to use and you learn it real quick. The boss encounters are the only real combat the game has to offer, and most of them are a joke and a half with abilities like Haste(ga), Use, Summon and Rikku's Overdrive. Outside of Seymour Flux and Yunalesca, the combat/gameplay is pretty whatever and the time you spend on them is way less than the amount of time you spend on cutscenes. Not to mention there is zero side content in Final Fantasy X until the very very end of the game, otherwise it's completely linear and doesn't offer anything else amidst story progression. There is no '' oh let me stop here and go do something else '' which FFXIV very much offers.

But Final Fantasy has always, to me, been about the immaculate presentation of the world, the characters and the story. Gameplay is but only one vehicle of presentation, and often it is way overshadowed by the art direction, the story, the music and the world building.

[Theodric]

I had to look up when FFX was released. It's twenty years old at this point, so yeah - it had some limitations that held it back on some fronts but modern day games don't need to be bound by the same limitations as older games were. I like a healthy balance in RPG's - a good story, decent music, plenty of meaningful side content and a fun combat system.

Variety is the spice of life, after all. The game was never advertised as a glorified visual novel and I'd rather it not become one.

[LalaLlama]

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Okay, a few examples.

If I get told to go kill 1 thing, do that, hand it in, then get told to go kill another thing, this can be done at the same time. I can't name the quest from the top of my head, but, I know there have been several like this. This doesn't need to be linear, it, again, can be done at the same time. It won't change the story.

Next is going from A-B, I'm told to head from A-B, but on the way I have to stop 3+ times to either kill a few mobs or speak to the person I'm meeting over there for some mundane reason. The killing of a few mobs is okay, but, having to stop to get 2-3 speech bubbles to then move on and get the same thing againjust slows down time. This is done a good amount.

Next is the pointless quests, where it tells you to go find something or speak to someone, then gives you 4+ spots to look or 4+ people to speak too and only 1 of them is the correct one. This just adds more time.

Then there's the "following the footprints" type quests. Yes, it's fine to follow them, but, it taking 5-10 seconds for it to say "These seem to head north" when you can CLEARLY see which direction they are going in. Why do I NEED to stop and "investigate" these footprints to know which direction they are going, when I can SEE which direction they are going.

Then there's the cutscene's for a lot of the new zones that you enter that are spoken like someone writing in a diary. These don't need to be in the game, especially when you get to the end of it, only to have to walk 3 STEPS to speak to the NPC and get another cutscene.

There is a LOT of filler things that are just there to drag the time played and nothing more. "We need to get ready for a war, so we need to get this, this, this and this done as fast as possible. But, we're going to make you do these tasks 1 at a time, rather than giving you all 4 at once, even though time is of the essence!".

[LalaLlama]

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As for why I don't go and do the side quests and other things, because, for levelling your first character, they are pointless. It's pretty much 0 progression. Yes, I can go get all these raids, trials, dungeons and sidequests done, but, when I come back to the MSQ, I'll still be doing them at their designated level, since a lot of it is level-synced.

I'm not saying there's nothing to do when you're levelling, I'm saying there's nothing MEANINGFUL to do to progress your character apart from doing the MSQ. Bloated stuff may be a lot, but, it's still bloated. It's there to make it "seem" like there's plenty to do, when in all reality, it's pointless. Especially for a new player.

[Thorio]

Greetings, the events of this day and the responses around the housing issue and other hot button points I feel have elicited a discussion over the title topic. I believe XIV has fostered a culture of toxic (for lack of a better word) positivity. What is toxic positivity? Its when all critique and dissenting opinions get drowned out in favor of a non-critical view and a glossing over of faults and issues. We've seen this today in blind defense of housing bugs that never should have happened. We've seen it in the past with character customization, limited races and hair styles, and bizarre job changes. I saw it personally today when in my server's (Siren) novice network some folks were discussing cutscenes in EW. I voiced the opinion that I thought there were too many and too long. This led to personal attacks. A short while later some other mentors and sprouts were discussing topics against ToS and I voiced that perhaps those topics were not appropriate for the channel, and this was met with more personal attacks with crude language. I sought to not violate ToS of my own accord, but the vitriol they were typing was quite against it. This led to a kick, and while I could report the language I do not want to be petty. I, however, have no other idea how we might combat this outside of reporting when these players have been so emboldened by this toxic positivity culture that has taken hold in XIV.

Well thanks because now I know I won't be visiting Siren.

[LalaLlama]

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Your points are definitely valid, and yes, a good portion of the game is linear (Up until you beat Yunalesca really, since you unlock the Airship then and can do whatever you want), but, it takes around 10-15 hours, if that, to get to that point.

I have no problems with linear story-telling. I know it wouldn't make sense if it wasn't linear. But, there's a difference between linear story for 10-15 hours and linear story for 150-200 hours.

I also know that FFXIV offers a LOT of side content. But, as a new player, I WANT to experience the story, to it's fullest. I WANT to get into it, lose track of time and realise it's now 3am and I've been playing for 10 hours. Sadly, for me anyway, FFXIV doesn't do this. It does it for the first 1-2 hours of my playtime, but, after that, I start to lose focus of it and end up coming off. I know this is just a personal preference, it just kinda sucks for me, because I got into gaming BECAUSE of a Final Fantasy game (Watching my mom play FFVII as a kid on the PS1 lol).

[Iscah]

Next is going from A-B, I'm told to head from A-B, but on the way I have to stop 3+ times to either kill a few mobs or speak to the person I'm meeting over there for some mundane reason. The killing of a few mobs is okay, but, having to stop to get 2-3 speech bubbles to then move on and get the same thing again just slows down time. This is done a good amount.

From the way the game is structured, that's really the only way they can do it – the only opportunity to have those conversations before the story has moved past them.

Also, I think it's what the new "accompanying NPC" quests are designed to alleviate. You can stop and talk to your companion at every marked sightseeing point and inbetween them, or you can make a direct line for the next major objective.

I do agree that the "following footsteps" objectives could just be observation-based.

Then there's the cutscene's for a lot of the new zones that you enter that are spoken like someone writing in a diary. These don't need to be in the game, especially when you get to the end of it, only to have to walk 3 STEPS to speak to the NPC and get another cutscene.

I like those zone cutscenes. Can't really dispute having different thoughts on it, but they're certainly not what I would nominate to remove if simplifying quests.

As for why I don't go and do the side quests and other things, because, for levelling your first character, they are pointless. It's pretty much 0 progression. [...] It's there to make it "seem" like there's plenty to do, when in all reality, it's pointless. Especially for a new player.

That's a mindset. I regard progression as filling out and unlocking all the various story paths the game has established (plus the instances for roulettes), therefore progressing side stories is just as much "real" progress as anything else – and keeping all events chronological, besides.

If your only goal is to tear through the story to hit endgame and then never spend your time playing anything else except endgame, then yes, unlocking the older raids is a waste of specifically your time.

But that's not how everyone plays and it's not the philosophy the game is built around. The old raids are still relevant, have ongoing significance to the main plot, and people are playing them every day. Unlocking them, and levelling classes by playing them, is still progress towards something even if it isn't shortening the distance to get you to the current endgame raids.

[Iscah]

I also know that FFXIV offers a LOT of side content. But, as a new player, I WANT to experience the story, to it's fullest.

If you want to experience the story to the fullest, do the side stories as you go. At very least: the Binding Coil, Alexander and Omega. There are things that you are supposed to be familiar with.