Healers need an overhaul

[Droxybrobotnik]

*headdesk*

Savage raiders spend 60%+ of every raid spamming one button. What do you think happens in easier content?

Do...do you think more healing is somehow needed in easier content? How do you not understand that healing being boring in Savage and Ultimate means that healing is also boring everywhere else?!

I don't raid Savage. I quit healing three years ago because it was incredibly boring. Dungeon bosses are a joke. 24-mans only need healing when it's an absolute clownfest. MSQing as a healer is a prescription-strength sleep aid (you can't heal mobs to death, y'know). Tanks now have so much self-sustain that healers are flat-out unnecessary in most content. Literally only two current fights in the game require healers: P3S and P4S.

Why do you think healers should be happy about this? Why should healers accept being unnecessary and boring to play in 99% of the game? The only reason, the only reason, I can come up with is that you lot want healing to be the ticket to a free, zero-effort carry through content.

From now on, "If you want to DPS, play a DPS," should be answered with, "If you want to mindlessly press one button to win, play Cookie Clicker."

I feel like you're not at all getting what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that either they increase healer dps by giving it more offensive skills or split the dps is already has into more skills. First option requires further balancing, since if you up the dps in any content, esp endgame, you also need to up the boss if you don't want to nerf it by increasing the dps, and in the second they work goes into making it more complex for the sake of increasing complexity. Wether there is a big enough demand for it to actually put the effort in I can't tell. Tbh, some of you are talking like you want a complete revamp and thats actually a lot of work and testing

[MintnHoney]

Tbh, some of you are talking like you want a complete revamp and thats actually a lot of work and testing

It's in the title of the thread, lmao.

[Droxybrobotnik]

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content. If you revamp them you need to revamp a lot more than just 4 classes. Again I say, I simply don't see the demand for it to be worth so much work and time sunk into it. Feel free to prove me, and more importantly square, wrong.

[MintnHoney]

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content.

No, the Tanks are the backbones of any challenging content, and the DPS are the ribs and meat. The Healers are just the fat, and tend to get trimmed almost immediately. Case in point: the increasing amount of encounters that are being done, even current content, where healers are proven to be unnecessary.
While we're at it, we're going into a phase where they want to make the game more single-player friendly. Healers are not built for that kind of experience, as we know from having so many people admit "you should play a DPS class for story, not a healer" as an answer for how we might fix healer gameplay issues in solo content. "Just don't play them" is not a good answer to fixing them.

[Droxybrobotnik]

No, the Tanks are the backbones of any challenging content, and the DPS are the ribs and meat. The Healers are just the fat, and tend to get trimmed almost immediately. Case in point: the increasing amount of encounters that are being done, even current content, where healers are proven to be unnecessary.

Square balances around endgame content tho, and you can't do that without healers. Replace one critical part of a machine and you got a bigger problem on your hands. I'm afraif that if Square is actually gonna do something so drastic then you need more than a thread and some thumbs up. How about solliciting practical examples with demonstrated cases of your points for instance? That might get them to at least look.

[Nizzi]

Square balances around endgame content tho, and you can't do that without healers. Replace one critical part of a machine and you got a bigger problem on your hands. I'm afraif that if Square is actually gonna do something so drastic then you need more than a thread and some thumbs up. How about solliciting practical examples with demonstrated cases of your points for instance? That might get them to at least look.

P1S and P2S have been cleared without healers, so there's currently only 3 fights in EW that can't be done without healers lol

[Droxybrobotnik]

P1S and P2S have been cleared without healers, so there's currently only 3 fights in EW that can't be done without healers lol

Can't they just increase tankbuster damage or something for that tho?

[MintnHoney]

Square balances around endgame content tho

They absolutely do not.
We have more statements where they talk about balancing the jobs around the lowest common denominators of player skill than they do saying anything related to needing to balance around endgame content. And if you need more proof to that front, the recent (upsetting) changes to SAM and NIN prove that, while they have to think about end-game content because it is content that they are releasing, they are most certainly not going to consider balancing the game for high-end content before they consider balancing it for the skill-floor.

Replace one critical part of a machine and you got a bigger problem on your hands. I'm afraif that if Square is actually gonna do something so drastic then you need more than a thread and some thumbs up. How about solliciting practical examples with demonstrated cases of your points for instance? That might get them to at least look.

We have videos all over the place of no-healer runs of various current/end-game encounters, and we constantly talk about them. They even talked about it during the famous "go play ultimate and suffer" live letter.
Believe me, they know. They're just arrogant enough to be able to make stupid statements like "go play ultimate" because they know they'll get away with it since the white knights get even more whitey and knighty as long as Yoshi-P will tolerate their incessant fangasming and entertain their inane questions.

Can't they just increase tankbuster damage or something for that tho?

No, they can't. Because that would increase the outgoing damage, which is something they do not want to do because it would be too much pressure on newer (less-skilled) healers. They've already gone on record and said this, too.

[IDontPetLalas]

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content. If you revamp them you need to revamp a lot more than just 4 classes. Again I say, I simply don't see the demand for it to be worth so much work and time sunk into it. Feel free to prove me, and more importantly square, wrong.

As you say, ultimately SE will either modify healer design, or it won't. I imagine it can take many things into consider, such as people who cancel and provide their feedback, or people who like the changes in PVP, or who knows, maybe they'll hire a healer designer.

One thing I certainly do hope is that people who main healers are given a say into future changes and that those people consider that, as well as those people who actually have access into the actual effort cost analysis - since none of us aside from SE really know that.

[IDontPetLalas]

I feel like you're not at all getting what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that either they increase healer dps by giving it more offensive skills or split the dps is already has into more skills. First option requires further balancing, since if you up the dps in any content, esp endgame, you also need to up the boss if you don't want to nerf it by increasing the dps, and in the second they work goes into making it more complex for the sake of increasing complexity. Wether there is a big enough demand for it to actually put the effort in I can't tell. Tbh, some of you are talking like you want a complete revamp and thats actually a lot of work and testing

after https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-play-Ultimate is up to 154 pages ? Let alone other threads. over years, really? This affects four jobs - one role. A core part of the game design. I would call that a high priority.