New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

[Kelev]

@Kelev

Hrothgar (and I presume Viera, but the problem seem to be more visible on Hrothgar)

*snip*

... Firstly, if all you said is correct, then it does mean Square Enix has issues with the new races...it will only continue to cause problems further down the line.

This problem is specific to Hrothgar. Period.

So a lot of the re-does of the new races are better shaders and textures, but that doesn't solve the Hrothgar problem, which is that we need more vertices and bones and such. Viera, you've got an issue with ear placement, but that's a "suck-it-up-and-deal" thing more than anything else. Viera head shapes are pretty much human, you just have ears up top. And as evidence I will present the Viera character creator, where you're allowed to select your ear type/shape. We don't have that option because our ears are bolted to our faces. Those vertices have to come from somewhere.

Keep in mind this part is largely conjecture on my end, but remember that a character if nothing but a big ball of data. An example of a more invasive (but in my opinion better) option would be to treat the Hrothgar like we do embedded systems, like you'd find in a car, or on an electronic keypad. What's the difference between tail length 46, and 48? Nothing. So having tail size be small, medium, large and manx would take up two bits of the value that the Hrothgar carry around with them for the slider. By performing bitwise arithmetic on that value, you'd be able to pack more information into a Hrothgar's data "ball" than you would normally be able to fit into another character, and that's because the decision was made to have those be what the sliders represent. But without additional vertices, you'd be able to do things like keep more "skulls" (hair/face combos) than is normally allowed.

Another would be taking a vertex or two out of the tail.

But because of the Hrothgar jaw and the tail, we more bones borrowed than do other races. Viera don't have the complications we do, and that's one of the reasons that the problem is, in Yoshi's defense, so difficult. But when he says "the hair and face were designed as a set," he's leaving out something crucial to the problem, which is that we don't have ear bones, and the ears and face aren't even a set. They're a unit, and until those units are standardized on ear placement, or a couple of vertices are borrowed from someplace else to give us real ears? You just can't. And the hideous abominations are an attempt to "standardize" on a haircut that fits all four skulls and like most one-size-fits-all stuff, it looks like crap.

What we need is ear standardization. What we got?

[Kelev]

I was INSTANTANEOUSLY corrected by my other half who is a programmer and loves 3D work.

What we got was this:



Can't breathe.

[Midareyukki]

This problem is specific to Hrothgar. Period.

snipped the rest

>< sorry, just wanted to give the benefit of the doubt. To me, Viera were incomplete as well, so I was expecting them to also Kludge their way through some stuff. But this problem is just singularly on Hrothgar then.

I too spoke to a friend of mine about this. He's got a degree in Software Design and is currently on a Master's degree on Game Developping. And what he said was that not only is this inexcusable from a software design stand, it's also inexcusable from a game dev design. Because yes, you need to factor in costs, time, effort, resources, how comfortable your team is making a race that isn't a humanoid, stuff like that. But you do it right at the start, before any of this is released. They get together, make a design and plan this stuff out. They ask how long it would take, if it's even doable, and sometimes, if the company is any good, they'll ask how they plan on doing it. They'll ask how they plan to do it so that they don't meet random "unforeseen" situations such as a programmer saying "Yeah, we wanted to do it, turns out we have no idea how and figuring out how will take us longer".

He also said something about "iteration". For a programmer, an iteration is just "how many times a loop has looped". But for a software developer, an iteration is every version of a software you have until the final product is released. He said that if Hrothgar are this bad at this specific iteration, imagine how poor the process was through each iteration until then. So either they Kludge'd their way into this mess over and over, which is just crap design. Or they just Kludge'd it once and called it a day, shipped it as-is, and that's what we've been stuck with for three years, which is also crap design.

Also... I get we're "in beta". But holy crap, Square, can you please release one feature in FF14 that ISN'T beta? Even the Adventurer Portraits say Beta! Why are you giving us stuff in this state? To rush out content and have us play around with features you want to see implemented? I admire the effort, but the more they keep throwing stuff that's unfinished like this, the more the game will need more and more work to fix everything it has. That's tiring to see.

I was INSTANTANEOUSLY corrected by my other half who is a programmer and loves 3D work.

What we got was this:



Can't breathe.

Yeah pretty much. We're just Roegadyn with hair textures and a different face. A face with a Roegadyn structure on the back and a snout on the front. It's not a "new" race, it doesn't have any different proportions like Au Ra did. Au Ra may be humanoid and stretched out Elezen, but their whole sillouette is different. Hrothgar are just Roegadyn in a permanent "I need to poop but I can't find a bathroom" animation.

[myahele]

Yeah pretty much. We're just Roegadyn with hair textures and a different face. A face with a Roegadyn structure on the back and a snout on the front. It's not a "new" race, it doesn't have any different proportions like Au Ra did. Au Ra may be humanoid and stretched out Elezen, but their whole sillouette is different. Hrothgar are just Roegadyn in a permanent "I need to poop but I can't find a bathroom" animation.

When Hrothgar was 1st released I had trouble differentiating them from Roegadyn based on their frame alone if they're wearing a helmet and it's only when I see their tails and posture.

[Chikatsu]

When Hrothgar was 1st released I had trouble differentiating them from Roegadyn based on their frame alone if they're wearing a helmet and it's only when I see their tails and posture.

well, if you see them wearing a helmet, that is usually a dead giveaway it's not a Hrothgar..... yes, I am still salty about equipment, why do you ask?

[Raskbuck]

well, if you see them wearing a helmet, that is usually a dead giveaway it's not a Hrothgar..... yes, I am still salty about equipment, why do you ask?

And the few full helms we can wear, shrink our heads and replaces it with the Roegadyn one, lol.

[GrimGale]

well, if you see them wearing a helmet, that is usually a dead giveaway it's not a Hrothgar..... yes, I am still salty about equipment, why do you ask?

It doesn't really help that most Job sets have such significant and iconic hats. I can't wear a Mortarboard as a SCH, I can't wear the AST hat, I can't wear the BLM iconic hat either. At least I get the Summoner dong. And its a problem that keeps repeating with the new Job gear sets. Red Mage cap? Not for you. New PVP sets that are a recolor of old Job gear? Nope.

[Allegor]

It doesn't really help that most Job sets have such significant and iconic hats. I can't wear a Mortarboard as a SCH, I can't wear the AST hat, I can't wear the BLM iconic hat either. At least I get the Summoner dong. And its a problem that keeps repeating with the new Job gear sets. Red Mage cap? Not for you. New PVP sets that are a recolor of old Job gear? Nope.

At the very least, job gear should always have working hats. They made them work for WAR and RPR, dunno why they just say nope to BRD or RDM, jobs that are far more iconic for their hats.