Keep overpower cone shaped!

[Shurrikhan]

Anecdotally Xeno just did a stream covering tank changes and explained why circle Overpower is just better.

For what?

If any part of your enemies' massive hit-rings intersects the already massive conal AoE, you get a hit. Even with small enemies pushed out and towards your immediate flanks by larger enemies, there is no chance of missing an enemy with your conal AoE when using it correctly.

The radial AoE's only unique advantage is QoL. And you have to sacrifice range for that.

1. Doing backwards Overpower pulls effectively requires non-default controls.

No, it doesn't. You can just jump and lock your camera, just like with any other instant skill used when running away.

As a targeted skill, the direction of your animation is irrelevant. The cone will always be centered on your target.

2. Having to reposition every GCD when spamming Overpower into Mythril so you can hit everything is just clunky. If you need to reposition to group up mobs better, you can do that on every other tank with circle AoEs just fine.

You'd only ever need to move back and forth for Mythril if there would otherwise be more than 10 yalms' distance between the edges of the two most distant mobs' hit-rings. Such is incredibly rare.

Remember, AoEs do not strike enemy models; they strike their hit-rings, which are far, far larger. AoEs do not have to intersect the middle of those hit rings, either, only any part of them.

3. Circle has a larger total area.

Barely. A 8-yalm 120-degree conal AoE has an area of ~67 sq. yalms. A 5-yalm radial AoE has an area of ~78 sq. yalms. The difference is negligible relative to some quarter-seconds' movement in any given direction. Any cone wider than 140 degrees would already match it for total area.

And that's only been the case since mid-Stormblood, when all radial AoE sizes were increased in response to people complaining about radial AoEs being harder to hit all enemies with than conals. (Note: Linear AoEs were widened at the same time; until then, conals were the most reliable and easiest to use AoEs.)

4. If you need to pick up stragglers, just use Voke or Tomahawk, though you'll likely have fewer stragglers to begin with because 3.

For a single straggler, you'd use Provoke regardless (or, previously, you'd have used it to gather them into Overpower's formerly greater effective area of effect and thus have no stragglers).

The difference is merely that my AoE now has same range as enemy auto-attacks, meaning that if I want to hit multiple stragglers in the same GCD, I must get hit. So instead of just positioning halfway decently for a tool that could do all this in a single GCD, I'd now have to spend further GCDs or be hit.

[marelooke]

Before this year I had never attempted Tanking on any game. Decided to take the plunge, and Warrior is the one I settled on for most of my Tank journey. At first I did find the fact that Overpower was a cone a little more hectic compared to the other AOE skills Tanks had. I was very fearful of not being able to get all the mobs agro before they could smack the healer/DPS, but in time I saw its longer reach as an advantage and it was a good way to learn how to line mobs up...

I suppose that's how we all started. It's kinda sad that they had to take away this skill that one could built over time.

that said in higher content I do sometimes 'cheat' and use Mythril Tempest on its own when going wall-to-wall, just to make sure I did catch the agro of the mobs.

We (used to) have both. It'd be foolish not to use the options are our disposal to the fullest. Most pulls I open with Overpower, but there's exceptions, learning when to use which ability to most effectively grab the mobs was what kept dungeon tanking fun (especially in PUGs where one might need to compensate for unexpected party behaviour)

Perhaps a better alternative would have been to flip MT and Overpower around in the learning/rotation order?.

I've seen this suggestion a few times and I'm afraid I have to disagree with it being a good idea. I usually want to use Overpower as opener for numerous reasons that have been expanded up already in this thread (range, time at which you'd use it etc etc), only occasionally I'd want to use the Mythril Tempest before Overpower (which would usually be Tomahawk -> Mythril Tempest situations rather than Mythril Tempest -> Overpower anyway).

So while Overpower has its perks while tanking packs it's especially great at pulling, as such I don't feel switching them around in the combo makes much sense.

[Shurrikhan]

Perhaps a better alternative would have been to flip MT and Overpower around in the learning/rotation order? Also the shockwave animation in circular form is in no way as cool as the wavey animation of the cone.

Generally, it's more intuitive for the tool given first to be the one that's easier to pull/engage with... which would actually be Overpower, anyways.

[LydiaF]

+1 for reverting it back to the cone!

I've always enjoyed the added flourish of "skill" using a cone required. I use the term skill loosely because really it just required a change of approach to grabbing groups, but I love how it felt, it felt aggressive and it felt different to other tanks.

I loved coming at groups from an angle and snapping them up in advance before I reached them. Now I body pull and it just feels... ugly.

As it stands, it's another nail in the coffin for a class I really used to enjoy the skill set of.

[Xtrasweettea]

Squad MRDs Overpower are circles to. Which I was surprised to be honest. Squads still have old abilities that they can do and you can't. I was expecting them to lead Squad MRD to be a cone. Nope, they made it a circle too.

[Shurrikhan]

Squad MRDs Overpower are circles to. Which I was surprised to be honest. Squads still have old abilities that they can do and you can't. I was expecting them to lead Squad MRD to be a cone. Nope, they made it a circle too.

It's a matter of Spell IDs. If they changed the actual skill, rather than making a new one and then giving players that new one instead, then of course it'd be changed for Squadrons as well (even as Squad tanks might still be able to use Convalescence or even Bloodbath and the like).

[marelooke]

Not fixed in patch 6.11, disappointed. Haven't even really felt like playing much since tanking dungeons just isn't fun any-more. Then again, they're ignoring SAM as well, so yeah...

[Ralt21]

It's a matter of Spell IDs. If they changed the actual skill, rather than making a new one and then giving players that new one instead, then of course it'd be changed for Squadrons as well (even as Squad tanks might still be able to use Convalescence or even Bloodbath and the like).

I played with squadron. Toghter with old npc and enemies aka arr stuff and the like all of them still have the old move set. The devs will never update the old npc, squadron, and enemies to have an updated move set to their current job. Arcanist still using shadowflare, Some archer enemies using bulls eyes, squadron archer using refresh, squadron tank using bullwalk and flash, and now old overpower. All these are here to stay except for us the player.

[marelooke]

I played with squadron. Toghter with old npc and enemies aka arr stuff and the like all of them still have the old move set. The devs will never update the old npc, squadron, and enemies to have an updated move set to their current job. Arcanist still using shadowflare, Some archer enemies using bulls eyes, squadron archer using refresh, squadron tank using bullwalk and flash, and now old overpower. All these are here to stay except for us the player.

At first I thought the argument another player made about the bots being too dumb to use Coneverpower correctly made sense, but since I don't actually use them, unless I must, I checked with some static members that do regularly use them, and according to them they used Coneverpower better than circular AoEs, so guess there went that argument...

Guess it really is just for homogenisation's sake. Depressing.

[Colt47]

Anecdotally Xeno just did a stream covering tank changes and explained why circle Overpower is just better.



You say that like that's a bad thing.

1. Doing backwards Overpower pulls effectively requires non-default controls.
2. Having to reposition every GCD when spamming Overpower into Mythril so you can hit everything is just clunky. If you need to reposition to group up mobs better, you can do that on every other tank with circle AoEs just fine.
3. Circle has a larger total area.
4. If you need to pick up stragglers, just use Voke or Tomahawk, though you'll likely have fewer stragglers to begin with because 3.

This is absolutely a good quality of life change. Just because it wasn't that annoying, and you've learned to live with it, doesn't mean it was good. These threads are just a study on change aversion in humans. In two weeks none of you are going to care about this.

Xeno's analysis on overpower was pure satyr. The guy plays both Dark Knight and warrior, so he's used to having to utilize two skills to get the same effect that overpower originally provided. In actual practice the circle aoe is less useful than the cone aoe in the majority of combat scenarios that we run into due to the dungeon design being heavily linear, and the reach on the cone being significantly longer. It made it way less likely that a stray monster would start hitting other players in the group and pull the healer into needing to use a skill to heal another target member.

Also, in practice tanks do not like having targets behind them because of how the camera angle works in these types of games. You don't want your view being blocked by some large opponent, so even with the other tanks you'd usually try to move the targets into the front of you or at least to the sides. I don't know why the other tanks didn't have cone based AOEs to begin with.

However, there's definitely something kind of odd about the change. There might be something involving the infuriate rework, like they had to reuse code for dark knight to get that in. If that's the case than I can understand why this snuck in.