Who in the developer team designed and tested the Red Mage...

[jrollins89]

No thanks, then the game will be a permastun fiesta with Purify not working as intended is already bad when I sometimes go from 100% to 0% in stun chains after using purify.

Jobs should have ONE cc usable every 10 seconds or more.

That's.... that's exactly how tanks work in about every other game? There is no point in anyone targeting a tank if they deal little damage + have high survivability. They'd just be deadweight until the rest of their team is already dead (See: GNB, DRK). This is usually offset by giving them large amounts of CC. If you want to advocate for Purify being bugfixed, that's fine and justified, but should hold no sway in a job balance discussion.

There is no logically sound reason why DPS should have the same amount of CC as tanks unless they do similar damage (which they should not IMO).

I agree with you on WHM, but I believe RDM is even worse. Its damage is unmatched. It can take down any melee DPS easily - it's not even a contest. When you get rushed by one, there isn't much you can do except heal yourself nonstop, push guard, and hope the rest of the team helps you before guard is over. That if the RDM doesn't kill you in the duration of its (AOE) silence. The fact that it's damage is so high makes it very hard to outlast its burst even when you're playing defensively, which is not the case with any other job. Meanwhile, it has high mobility, high sustain when needed, AOE damage, AOE buff/debuff... Its uncanny. They fucked up.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I 100% believe that RDM is the most overpowered job currently. But like I said, I think it's mostly due to overtuned numbers rather than what's actually in their kit. Put simply, keep the high mobility, keep the buffs/debuffs, neuter it's damage and sustain potencies.

I think there's a good reason why you mostly hear complaints about WHM, DRG, and SAM despite RDM clearly being in a league of it's own; because people feel that there is something fundamentally wrong, that should not exist in those job's kit or need to be dramatically altered. Something that can't be fixed with simple potency changes. I just don't think that's the case with RDM.

[Freemind]

That's.... that's exactly how tanks work in about every other game? There is no point in anyone targeting a tank if they deal little damage + have high survivability. They'd just be deadweight until the rest of their team is already dead (See: GNB, DRK). This is usually offset by giving them large amounts of CC. If you want to advocate for Purify being bugfixed, that's fine and justified, but should hold no sway in a job balance discussion.

There is no logically sound reason why DPS should have the same amount of CC as tanks unless they do similar damage (which they should not IMO).



Oh, don't get me wrong. I 100% believe that RDM is the most overpowered job currently. But like I said, I think it's mostly due to overtuned numbers rather than what's actually in their kit. Put simply, keep the high mobility, keep the buffs/debuffs, neuter it's damage and sustain potencies.

I think there's a good reason why you mostly hear complaints about WHM, DRG, and SAM despite RDM clearly being in a league of it's own; because people feel that there is something fundamentally wrong, that should not exist in those job's kit or need to be dramatically altered. Something that can't be fixed with simple potency changes. I just don't think that's the case with RDM.

GNB are literally paper tanks. They can't handle anything. They're less tanky than a DRG with the geirskogul buff up.
But Tanks primary objective are either 1 to lock down certain dps/healers from performing 2. Holding the crystal to push it forward. Because they're tanky enough to not insta die going to it.
I would probably reduce dps & healers CC & give some to the Tanks, thats an idea i agree with. However there HAS to be diminishing returns. And to make Purify work properly.

RDM is a tough nut tbh. They don't have the same burst potential as other classes & it all comes down to a melee combo, without it they're practically useless.
Their CC is prob most balanced, you either get a root or a silence, not both at once. And you need to use a GCD to change it.
And if you want to change back you need another GCD. They're more of a strong support class more than anything. I mean Drg can kill you in 1 combo.
And Monk with LB which they get pretty fast, can guaranteed kill anyone.
And people tend to duel alot in CC, not many people use their teammates, they just pick a guy, challenge him to a 1v1 & cry because they died.

RDM doesn't lose any duels, but they can't do shit in a 1v2 which many other classes can. They only have 1 aoe besides their LB which does jack shit unless you stand in the middle off it & if they use black magic.

[Tobias_Azuryon]

RDM is a tough nut tbh. They don't have the same burst potential as other classes & it all comes down to a melee combo, without it they're practically useless.
Their CC is prob most balanced, you either get a root or a silence, not both at once.

I agree with most of your post except this part. RDM has a COLUMN AOE SILENCE/BIND not just a root or silence, meaning even in the 1v2 environment they can manage the battlefield. Not only can they shut you down but they can literally burst you apply dot and then keep themselves sustained with white shift if need be. Their burst is absolutely insane when using displacement and corps a corps correctly and they can stack shields on themselves.

Even if we ignore white shift for self sustain, Frazzle will increase the damage the opponent(s) take by 10% for 10s. Resolution can do 8k in a line with bind/silence. Corps does another 10% damage taken debuff to enemy AND lowers the RDM damage taken from the enemy for 7s. So Frazzle > Corps > Melee combo, displacement which then buffs your magic damage by 20%, at any point before or after this you can bind your target to leave them sitting in one place, even if they use a gap closer on you because your next cast after your melee combo is instant cast so you can bind and move out of range. All without using a single cast time skill.

Your counters are:
1. Guard and hope they're stupid enough to keep using their combo on you (instead of just waiting to unload on you again since both corps and displacement have 2 charges)
2. Attempt to outdps/stun the RDM (in which they have a single purify leading them right back to unloading on you)

I don't know if I'm just missing something or misreading here but they can absolutely delete someone in a 1v2 environment, guard and start it up again immediately after 10s or so after they last combo'd you, and/or swap to white shift after DoT'ing the first target and just outlasting them. That's not to say they're unstoppable in 1v2 but the fact that we even have to bring up 1v2 to talk about RDM balance is kinda hilarious in retrospect. I can't think of a job off the top of my head who CAN safely 1v2 without factoring in LB.

But yes GNB is absolutely the worst class right now I think. BLM and DNC are really its only competition but even DNC and BLM have made me have to actually change my strats. I want to play as GNB and I've tried but I basically just burst them down and move on with my life every time I see one because they're so little of an issue in anything but a perfect scenario lol.

[aeoncs]

RDM is a tough nut tbh. They don't have the same burst potential as other classes & it all comes down to a melee combo, without it they're practically useless.
Their CC is prob most balanced, you either get a root or a silence, not both at once. And you need to use a GCD to change it.
And if you want to change back you need another GCD. They're more of a strong support class more than anything. I mean Drg can kill you in 1 combo.
And Monk with LB which they get pretty fast, can guaranteed kill anyone.
And people tend to duel alot in CC, not many people use their teammates, they just pick a guy, challenge him to a 1v1 & cry because they died.

RDM doesn't lose any duels, but they can't do shit in a 1v2 which many other classes can. They only have 1 aoe besides their LB which does jack shit unless you stand in the middle off it & if they use black magic.

That's a lot of misinformation in a few short sentences.

• They don't have the same burst potential as other jobs, true - they have the absolute strongest non-LB burst potential in the game and that remains true even after today's nerf. Said burst being tied to their melee combo means nothing in the given context.
• Their CC would be balanced if it wasn't AoE in a massive column. You also don't need a GCD to change it, you need one to use it.
• Since you really don't seem to be aware of this, I'll make it an extra point: Black/White Shift is NOT on the GCD, it can be weaved in and changed at any time, even mid-combo.
• A DRGs entire single-target burst combo does like 30% less damage than the full Black Shift combo of a RDM.
• A Monk can LB you once a minute tops and is a nuisance at best without their LB. A RDM can burst you three times for 80k+ each in the same amount of time.
• Saying that RDMs "can't do shit" in a 1v2 is just... yeah, I don't know what to say to this level of ignorance. They can literally AoE bind/silence, reduce the damage of both players if they want, shield and heal themselves for 18k and 10k respectively and still deal about 40k damage while playing defensively or they can just try to 100-0 one of the two in Black Shift while weaving in a few Recuperates. It also helps that their extremely strong DoTs completely ignore Guard if applied before activation.