Healers need an overhaul

[Loonies]

You can clear dungeon without GCD heals. Get better

Good players can do this, but i am not a good player, i won't get better. When there was not much content and story anymore for me in WoW, i tried FF14 and now i am happy to have back lot of more easy content with a lot of story. I just do normal dungeons, i leave more difficult runs as savage and ultimate for the better players.
So maybe expert, savage and ultimate runs should be more a challenge for heal as well, but this can be done without more dps buttons.

[Nizzi]

Good players can do this, but i am not a good player, i won't get better. When there was not much content and story anymore for me in WoW, i tried FF14 and now i am happy to have back lot of more easy content with a lot of story. I just do normal dungeons, i leave more difficult runs as savage and ultimate for the better players.
So maybe expert, savage and ultimate runs should be more a challenge for heal as well, but this can be done without more dps buttons.

I'm sorry, but "I have no desire to get better" has to be the most selfish excuse I've ever seen for why your fellow players shouldn't be allowed to have more fun on their main jobs. If you don't want to get better, just don't press the buttons, but don't drag the entire role down with you.

[ForteNightshade]

Good players can do this, but i am not a good player, i won't get better. When there was not much content and story anymore for me in WoW, i tried FF14 and now i am happy to have back lot of more easy content with a lot of story. I just do normal dungeons, i leave more difficult runs as savage and ultimate for the better players.
So maybe expert, savage and ultimate runs should be more a challenge for heal as well, but this can be done without more dps buttons.

Except you have the option of Trusts, which is being expanded on this entire expansion for every piece of story content. We don't have an alternative. Every single dungeon can be entirely solo'd by tanks. Even Dark Knight, a tank with minimal self sustain, can and has solo'd dungeons. P1 Savage has been cleared without healers. And no I don't care of the excuse, "they make the first tier easier!" There's easier and then there's making an entire role borderline irrelevant. Dragonsong is mere days away and I guarantee you both healers in every decent static will eventually clear while having pressed the same two buttons more than every healing GCD in their kit combined. Hell, even with adding oGCDs, it still likely won't be able to beat how often they'll be spamming 111111111111111

This also has nothing to do with you being good or bad. As a Warrior, I literally don't need you in a dungeon. Any Endwalker dungeon and you, as a healer, are completely irrelevant. I actually heal AoE pulls better because Bloodwhetting is essentially AoE Benediction. You could quite literally do /sit at the beginning of Smileton, go make a sandwich, maybe do some household chores, and come back to a cleared dungeon. You being a good player or not makes zero difference because tank sustain is so incredible. And before anyone brings up Warrior being OP. Every tank can do this. Dark Knight needs a little help to keep up speed wise but they can all run through EW dungeons without a healer. That isn't easy mode. It's toddler's first MMO levels.

Which is to highlight the fundamental problem with FFXIV's healing design. We have reached a point where the entire role borders on relevancy. The hilarious irony is the only thing keeping two healers in a Savage comp is the very website the dev team hates: FFlogs. In order to rank, you must run 2T/2H/4D otherwise your logs get moved to "Non-Standard". If this ever changes to allow solo healing to rank under "Standard", every single good static will force one of their healers onto a DPS. There is not a single fight in the current raid tier that can't be solo healed.

A bit sad when the only thing holding this broken design together is a third party website.

[Alaray]

Good players can do this, but i am not a good player, i won't get better. When there was not much content and story anymore for me in WoW, i tried FF14 and now i am happy to have back lot of more easy content with a lot of story. I just do normal dungeons, i leave more difficult runs as savage and ultimate for the better players.
So maybe expert, savage and ultimate runs should be more a challenge for heal as well, but this can be done without more dps buttons.

I'll preface by saying this: It's fine if you're not very good at the game, and don't really want to get better when the primary content you do is story/normal things. But if you already know you don't play healer to a really high - or mid - level, and just kind of a "I can get through dungeons/story content just fine", why do you feel like adding some more complexity for the Job's skill ceiling would affect you? If you're in on the Job's skill floor, which wouldn't really change even with a more involved DPS rotation, as the skill floor with a healer is often "don't let people die to unavoidable damage", which is to say: a change to DPS involvement on a class wouldn't be something you need to concern yourself with, unless you wanted to, since you'd still be able to do exactly what you do now to complete the content you do.

None of what I'm saying is meant to come off mean, rude or anything -- but I am genuinely a little lost with your perspective and argument? I could see if, say, healing was integrally tied into a complicated DPS rotation wherein you could not heal unless you're executing your rotation well, but if a 0 Damage Dealing healer player can clear all content now, just fine (excluding content with Enrages, for the most part), I don't see how making the DPS portion more involved would hurt that sort of player (especially since, when it comes to dungeons, the AoE damage would likely simply be the same anyway -- with Holy/Misery and Assize in WHM's case). If you're more inbetween, like you do try and do some damage and worry having more of a rotation would make it more stressful -- I mean, realistically? Break the combos, freestyle it here and there, cancel casts to move and so on. Dungeons/Story/Normal content has no actual DPS requirement to clear them, so let yourself make however many mistakes you need.

I can shift to using myself as an example -- I can play classes to a somewhat higher level if I want to and if I care to put in the work to do that, but for the most part whenever I'd pull out an alt-job I'd just kind of go with the basics (so, in Shadowbringers, my Tsubame on Samurai wouldn't line up with buffs and could end up in Who Know's Where with my rotation, since I'm basically playing the job at a closer to skill-floor level than not. Or when I tried to get into BLM and was a travesty in every dungeon people ended up with me in). Those two jobs have (or, at least as I'm speaking of the SHB versions) a lot of little tricks, and a lot of bigger than little tricks, they can do to maximize their output. But, I could ignore all those tricks and do passably in most cases. Trying to keep a perfect loop on Samurai so Tsubame never drifted wasn't something I concerned myself with, even though it was there and in the game (and, by extension, if I /wanted/ to deep dive into these classes there's a lot to learn and a lot of ways to improve, which is something I do find a lot of fun in any game I play).

[Semirhage]

Good players can do this, but i am not a good player, i won't get better. When there was not much content and story anymore for me in WoW, i tried FF14 and now i am happy to have back lot of more easy content with a lot of story. I just do normal dungeons, i leave more difficult runs as savage and ultimate for the better players.
So maybe expert, savage and ultimate runs should be more a challenge for heal as well, but this can be done without more dps buttons.

And this is where I'm sorely tempted to put my mean veteran healer hat on, because the non-sequitur at the end tells me all I need to know. Riddle me this. If you don't engage with your kit to anywhere near to its fullest, and you -acknowledge- that you don't, and the skill ceiling were to increase without affecting your regular dungeon runs, the problem is.......?

Ah right, I know exactly what the problem is. This is Healers Should Heal Only making its rounds yet again.

See, I hear constant cautioning that veteran healers slow their venom, lest they make casual healers feel bad. Sure, that's an important caution to keep in mind. But I'm also going to point out something less obvious, but I feel is no less important: Sylphies don't want vets having fun either. And you can tell, because their arguments center around making sure that parts of the role they admit in one breath don't affect them stay unfun for people asking for more in the next. This is where the argument graduates from "But the role would be less fun for me if X" and moves into "NO! Healers should HEAL ONLY! Don't give those other healers more damage buttons! That's not your role!"

[Nethereal]

Sylphies don't want vets having fun either.

I imagine that Sylphies don't like that by adding more damage buttons while it might not effect their play it does widen the skill gap and make them look bad, therefore they're against it happening.

iirc Yoshi himself said he was trying to lessen the healer gap by removing damage abilities and consolidating them, therefore making the skill gap look not as bad as it is, a fucking cliff.


Maybe remembering wrong.

[MiaShino]

iirc Yoshi himself said he was trying to lessen the healer gap by removing damage abilities and consolidating them, therefore making the skill gap look not as bad as it as, a fucking cliff.

Never really understood this way of thinking. If the content can be cleared with someone performing at 40% then why rip the fun from the ones who can perform at 100%? You are unable to see damage meters without third party software fricken anyways. Developers spend way way too much of the time worrying about skill gaps that will always exist. Not everyone is as good at everything as everyone else.. You would think this is obvious as anything. Tis fact of reality. Make it one button or twenty and someone will find way to outperform another.

This mad dash to place the skill ceiling so low it merges with the floor only results in boredom for some and stifles the chance for others to grow.

[Ralt21]

This is where the argument graduates from "But the role would be less fun for me if X" and moves into "NO! Healers should HEAL ONLY! Don't give those other healers more damage buttons! That's not your role!"

Unlike my first post i am reading this thread now. And man as a lurker on thia forum i also notice this. It is like the 'healer only heals' crowd doesnt like it when people play the same job different than they do.
It almost feels like this toxic behaviour you find at work were some people hate it when this one guy is doing the same job way better than everybody else. It starts to make them look bad.

[SargeTheSeagull]

Good players can do this, but i am not a good player, i won't get better.

If that is your attitude, please stop playing anything multiplayer.