The general direction of job changes is straight asinine. Literally NO ONE benefits.

[DPZ2]

Zing!

ooooooh. I'm sooooo sorry. <sobs> I'm not allowed to have my own opinions about what the OP actually wrote that were, to say the least, hyperbole at its worst?

Two words.

And thanks so much for ignoring the part about Tutorials completely.

[DPZ2]

snip

Still waiting for this:

Name two other MMORPGs with a tutorial system that teach 'how to play a job'. Make it starting level tutorials, and, later, at each level in which the job changes dramatically because of new synergies assigned to job actions. Actually, name one that fits that particular demand well. I'll wait.

[YukiB]

Still waiting for this:

Name two other MMORPGs with a tutorial system that teach 'how to play a job'. Make it starting level tutorials, and, later, at each level in which the job changes dramatically because of new synergies assigned to job actions. Actually, name one that fits that particular demand well. I'll wait.

You don't have to teach the player every element of how a job is played. There are shared mechanics between jobs that could be easily taught. For example, what is a GCD and why is it important to keep them rolling? What is an oGCD and how do you weave them between GCDs? What is a combo and why does it matter that skills are used in the right order? What does "potency" mean? What does this or that standard boss mechanic marker do?

[FrogBiscuit]

ooooooh. I'm sooooo sorry. <sobs> I'm not allowed to have my own opinions about what the OP actually wrote that were, to say the least, hyperbole at its worst?

Two words.

And thanks so much for ignoring the part about Tutorials completely.

Are you actually trying to be this dense and deflective?

- you are allowed to have a opinion. No one made a single comment about that. I, as well as others, were criticizing your hypocritical stance of mindlessly dismissing other peoples opinion, when it was your own prerogative to come into the thread and involve yourself. Great example at projection though. Congrats.
- Every post you have made in this thread so far are actual examples of hyperbole, if you need references. The only reason you are suggesting the OP posted hyperbole is because you have incorrectly read/interpreted/represented her words. the 'Every Veteran Player' comment is a perfect example of it. You exaggerated the OP's points to silly degrees only to construct and post a unrelated contradiction to what was even posted. Not a terribly honest person are you? Even with yourself it seems...
- And now you are doing it in response to me. I did comment on the tutorials. You entirely missed the plot, willful ignorance or unintentionally... Why does anyone need to name a MMO that has relevant class tutorials? That has zero to do with the OP's comment. At all. It was posed as a suggestion as an alternative to dumbing down the game. Why would it matter in any way, weather another MMO has taken that approach?

You literally have added nothing the conversation, even in the defense of the changes. You literally joined the convo by brainlessly dismissing everyone else's point of view, without any explanation or legitimate cause outside of 'Well I'm fine with how things are' as if that serves any purpose at all (even in proving your own point).

Once again, do you want to actually take part of the conversation? Or are you here simply to misrepresent the discussion and derail like a troll? If you just want to troll like a kid, fine... Just don't be upset later on when your presence is ignored simply due to how ungenuine you are.

Maybe try to actually respond to the points being made rather then constructing false and unrelated arguments.

[Shin96]

You can thank Shadowbringers for this. The expansion which did away with tanks first and now they're on to you, DPS. What can I say. Congratulations on making this game more boring to play with each expansion released. A part of me wanted to believe they would build on top of what was removed but alas I was wrong.

I don't know anymore. Kaiten being removed without a warning.. it was too random. What's next? Every job ends up being 1-2 like healers? Do tanks even need a tank stance anymore without enmity? Should healers be relegated to 1-1-1-1 spam for the future indefinitely?

I have leveled every job in this game and played them across all my time on this account. I didn't even level all of them to 90 because why should I. They either get nerfed into the ground or like with Samurai.. why bother maining a job when they just remove Kaiten.. on a whim for no reason at all?

[Amh_Wilzuun]

This is why we have a forum absolutely filled with pissed off players. Anyone who is dedicated and likes your game are pissed off. SMN, NIN, SAM, MCH are not happy. MNK has been pissed off for months already. Look over to the other forum.

I don't really agree with new Monk being an example of "dumbed down job design". You guys are shooting yourselves in the foot if you keep doing that imo. I feel for people who miss their old job but Monk was criticized for years in its old design so it was obvious that eventually it would get a major redesign.

Current Monk has actual skill expression, actual options for openers and rotations depending on the fight or your preferred playstyle, an interesting and busy burst phase. The new PB is a great extension of the job's focus on form GCDs. I also like that it still has SSS since it is a skill that is there to be a tool for skilled players when they need it. The team will be like "Welp guys I guess Monk is too complex for the playerbase, let's streamline for them so it's more approachable"

Is it perfect? No of course not, the job doesn't have enough to do between burst phases. And skills like ROW and anatman are pure filler. They should replace ROW with something that gives you more to do outside of burst rather than a kinda funny DPS cooldown. The loss of positional contributed to this problem but that is something I can reconcile with since positionals plus beast chakras would be a lot to ask of many players. I also understand that the fight design team doesn't want to have to design encounters while having to consider that one of jobs has to do a positional every single GCD. Maybe a middle ground would be for PB to eliminate positional requirements and re-add them to some or all GCDs. That or something else to add to downtime. I think current Monk design is more liked than people on this forum would lead you to believe but please use this energy on jobs that actually are too dumbed down before they take the skill expression out of EW Monk.

[YeBunny]

This is the complete opposite of how myself and a lot of old mnk players have felt about the rework, the mnk rework is shallow at best. It removed a bunch of things that old mnk's like, our ogcds and positionals. Mnk was the positional job, if you like that mechanic of positionals, you could play mnk, and if the devs really thought that during pb positionals would have been an issue they could have just made it so that you didn't have to do positionals during pb. It makes me frustrated to no end that just about all skill expression from all jobs has been slowly been removed. And dont get me started on how you can think that blitz's are a form of skill expression, you pick the opener based on your kill time and then follow from there. Blitz's are just a horrible combination of mudra's from nin and meikyo from sam, they dont interact with the rotation besides having another button to push in the burst. Blitz's should be something that is core to mnk, not just something we do once or twice a minute. Their is no skill expression its just hit your buttons in your rof window, and the only thing that makes the 2m burst window busy is the fact that we dont have a charka overflow, something the mnk playerbase has been asking for since brotherhood was introduced in SB. I will agree that ROW and anatman are filler but again the dev team clearly doesn't play mnk so they have no idea what they want to do with it.

[cjbeagle]

This is the complete opposite of how myself and a lot of old mnk players have felt about the rework, the mnk rework is shallow at best.

Lemme know what you think of this idea:

Instead of Perfect Balance granting Beast Chakras, what if monks got all their positionals back and if you land a full combo without missing any positionals, you get a Beast Chakra.

This would have the monk being able to execute a blitz roughly every 18s assuming they're landing all their positionals - approximately the same payoff cadence as samurai's Iaijutsu.

Perhaps in AOE you get a Beast Chakra as long as each of your AOE attacks hit 3+ targets.

Then, give a few options for how to spend Beast Chakras once collected - personally I'd rather have ST burst, AOE burst, and either a DOT, buff, or debuff rather than 3 different blitzes that all deal big damage one thing with a lesser AOE.

[VentVanitas]

I don't really agree with new Monk being an example of "dumbed down job design". You guys are shooting yourselves in the foot if you keep doing that imo. I feel for people who miss their old job but Monk was criticized for years in its old design so it was obvious that eventually it would get a major redesign.

Current Monk has actual skill expression, actual options for openers and rotations depending on the fight or your preferred playstyle, an interesting and busy burst phase. The new PB is a great extension of the job's focus on form GCDs. I also like that it still has SSS since it is a skill that is there to be a tool for skilled players when they need it. The team will be like "Welp guys I guess Monk is too complex for the playerbase, let's streamline for them so it's more approachable"

Monk has always had these traits, none of these are particularly new to EW MNK. Multiple openers and "rotations" were always on the job, as the nature of its GCD combos always allowed some level of flexibility. Don't pretend that MNK didn't have "actual" skill expression before just because it was a clunkier job, because it most certainly did.

[LauraAdalena]

Trick is still 15 seconds, though. The changes haven't done anything about making your burst fit into Trick -- it just so happens that there's another party buff going on at the same time. It's no different from having an extra Red Mage or Dancer in the party, really.


I only play Ninja myself, but from what I've heard the changes are a lot less nice for jobs that enjoyed putting one-minute burst and cooldowns into old Trick.

There's definitely many more (imo cursed) mini-optimisations for Ninja now, but any job at all which has one-minute burst or excess gauge it was able to pool has just lost a whole minute's worth of skill ceiling.

I don't think anyone is complaining about Mug being twenty seconds. It's a well-considered change, given how we want to use Mug, Trick, and Bunshin in our opener. The problem is that Mug now does two different things that we may not want to happen at the same time, and we lost what many consider a core element of Ninja for it.

Why it feels "crap" is because of Ninki gain already being a right mess, with the one optimisation we had to somewhat improve it being taken away. It feels bad being the only job that can't adequately build up gauge in preparation for burst. You're capped at 60 Ninki for two-minute windows. That feels pretty wretched, honestly.

A lot of those are fair points. However I think my point was that it feels slightly less punishing on the skills that fit outside of trick that you couldn’t before.

I absolutely agree that the removal of 60 seconds is bad, but it’s not just that. It’s straight malicious. They’ve vocalized not liking trick in the past but this was brutal as hell to trick attack. I still think they could have kept Trick but weakened it significantly on the even minutes instead. You know, make Mug make it 5% but it’s 1-2% to everyone without Mug. But that’s just my idea.

As for the gauge yeah that’s shitty. Especially when I just realized that now Mug applies the debuff AND gives 50 so you have no leeway there if you mess up.

I still think it feels better from an opener standpoint but that’s me.