Quote Originally Posted by Risvertasashi View Post
If there was 1 tank slot and 1 healer slot, you could nerf WAR and WHM a fair bit, and that would create space for other tanks and healers to move in. Without that, high end DPS become the benchmark. If a tank or healer can't do as much DPS as a high end DPS, and can't make up for that with very good utility (WAR and WHM are the two non-DPS that can make up for it), then the end result is no one plays T/H. Or at least, no one playing them gets to a decent rank.
I mean I've seen the game "try" to get one tank and one healer on most matches so I think they're already doing that in the background.

That being said I don't agree that if you take out things from other classes they become irrelevant. I'd still play GNB regardless of DPS if I had more CC. If one person has 5 million dollars and someone says "hey you should give that person 1 million dollars" it doesn't mean they aren't a millionaire, it just means someone else can sit at the table. Primal rend CD being increased or having splash damage on hit while only stunning a specific target, or adding more cc/utility to other classes should be the way to go.

I think we're saying the same thing in different ways, but while you're focused on WHM/WAR vs other dps, I'm focused on the roles as a whole and the fact that currently while you think WHM/WAR wouldn't be played because of dps, the other tanks and healers are played less because not only do they have no dps, they ahve no utility to a certain degree. Saying "it's there solely for the utility", if it's supposed to sound like a bad thing, doesn't work to me? Because if a GNB could control the battlefield at ALL like WAR there'd be tons of fun there when a WAR vs GNB fight happens with a sort of tug of war for the crystal. Right now that tug of war is the equivalent to 2 muscle builders pulling against a bunch of children.

It should always be If > Then

If a class has less dps, then it should have more utility/heal/etc. WAR and WHM shouldn't have all the dps utility AND healing for it to be a healthy system imo. SGE having good dps won't make it more loved by the people going into battle with it, but it if had a fraction of CC that WHM had it would be less of a "welp we're going against a WHM and WAR this is pretty much already over."

I want to stop myself from seeing WAR/WHM vs me and a DRK/PLD (or if I even get a tank that round) and going "welp this is already over" because they have not only WHM and WAR to control the crystal but the other "meta" jobs like SAM and DRG that have great damage AND sustain and mitigation. The meta right now is not only dps, it's the classes that somehow got the greenlight to be given all the tools needed to deal with any scenario with skillful play.

Quote Originally Posted by Risvertasashi View Post
Ironically if SE had better balanced another tank and healer, WHM and WAR probably wouldn't look so outrageous since they wouldn't be the only viable T/H options...
Agreed! That's what I'm fighting for. Less reason for players to go "Oh no I have X in my party" and more reason to go "okay I have a GNB they do this differently than WAR and I need to plan my strategy accordingly"