What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

And now it seems that those of us who were captivated by the likes of Heavensward and Shadowbringers must now cede territory to those who'd be content with circular fluff plots that go nowhere, combined with job changes that range from meh to ludicrous.

Yeah. It's a real shame, since the earlier expansions were definitely laying the groundwork for future expansions that would involve a lot of depth, nuance and grit. I don't think I'll ever care about the game's story again in the same way as I did in HW or ShB.

What's the point in caring about any of the current plot threads if there's a genuine risk that any investment will be rewarded by a sudden abandonment or misdirect? As well as shoehorning the likes of G'raha into everything...

[Rulakir]

The codex entry. I liked it better when I hadn't read it and just thought "Hydaelyn" referred to the planet like the moron I am. idk how the English version goes, but the French entry says she did the Sundering "to stop those who would give all future lives in hopes of restoring days gone", and once again bashes us over the head with how much she loved the planet and its inhabitants over all.

Well, at least that confirms it's not just an ENG localization issue? Yay? :\

Last thing: how long are we going to hang on every word Emet-Selch ever uttered before leaving?

Forever, because they wouldn't give us a better ending. (I see you, Kozh! Why you hiding this stuff from us?)

As an Emet fan, I'll take what I can get at this point since they wouldn't give us an AU or have Emet stay in any meaningful capacity beyond flashbacks. Guess he's our new Haurchefant, look forward to that. :P

Thinking on it further, it's outright cowardly that the writers did not show the direct effects of Venat's actions. Instead of the caricatures we saw in the Dead Ends and Venat's walk of shame we really needed to see the Sundering from the perspective of some regular, normal Ancients who were just trying to do right by their loved ones only to be brutally subjected to genocide.

As Teraq said, "changing her into a villain would be excessively simple" and I'm going to add that the entirety of EW (if not the game as a whole) actually makes sense if they just write Hydaelyn as having tempered everyone.

I think part of the problem is that the writers assume that people just relate with the Sundered first and foremost because 'tHeY aRe Us', conveniently ignoring that actually many of us relate to or at least sympathise with the game's antagonists.

They shouldn't have 1) made the Ancients so sympathetic/relatable and 2) made the WoL a reincarnated Azem if they wanted everyone to be #TeamSundered.

Why wouldn't I want to have a whole soul and creation magicks? Why wouldn't I want Emet and Hythlodaeus as my BFFs as opposed to the Scions? Why wouldn't I want fun adventures as opposed to being a war mascot who's consistently used by people to win their battles for them? Why wouldn't I want a world that looks like Elpis or Amaurot? Additionally, why wouldn't I be upset all that had been taken away from me?

It's like waking up from a great dream, being slapped in the face by reality, and then you're supposed to be happy about it. Oh, yay, so glad to be back at the Rising Stones with the Scions. *sigh*

[PawPaw]

They shouldn't have 1) made the Ancients so sympathetic/relatable and 2) made the WoL a reincarnated Azem if they wanted everyone to be #TeamSundered.

Why wouldn't I want to have a whole soul and creation magicks? Why wouldn't I want Emet and Hythlodaeus as my BFFs as opposed to the Scions? Why wouldn't I want fun adventures as opposed to being a war mascot who's consistently used by people to win their battles for them? Why wouldn't I want a world that looks like Elpis or Amaurot? Additionally, why wouldn't I be upset all that had been taken away from me?

It's like waking up from a great dream, being slapped in the face by reality, and then you're supposed to be happy about it. Oh, yay, so glad to be back at the Rising Stones with the Scions. *sigh*

There was that scene on the bridge with Venat and the player character where she asks us about our world and whether it was still beautiful. I laughed so very hard because reading the response options...the very idea that I was supposed to be thinking that the world I came from was pretty great comparatively was....not happening.

Instead, I recalled the first time that I saw Amaurot and how it made my breath catch in my throat. How the same had happened when I saw Elpis. Thought about how much I had instantly loved Hythlodaeus and even tsundere Emet-Selch and how I wished I could have been friends with them in the here and now. About how much had been lost. I smashed that "it's more beautiful here" button so damn fast; because for me, it was the absolute truth. Being told that I had to return to the Source was like having a bucket of cold water thrown over me whilst in the midst of the most beautiful dream in the warmest, coziest bed.

I wanted to see so much more; what was Amaurot like when it was busy and bustling, what was Anyder like when filled with researchers, what was a typical day in the life of an Ancient like, wtf did those grapes taste like?! I wanted more and I wanted to save them somehow because the more I saw, the more it was driven home that they did not deserve this, no matter how much Yoshida apparently thought he was making them "scary" whilst not being aware of the irony of suggesting their actions were unconsciously inhumane when my character comes from a world where inhumanity is happening every minute of every day, and most of it is done knowingly.

But that's the lesson of the day, folks. Seeking contentment and happiness in your post-scarcity world is just silly and weak and you don't deserve it. Suffering is the only thing that makes you strong and human.

[Lauront]

Yeah, we all had a good laugh at Y'shtola's abuse of familiars being totally acceptable because Scion but when the Ancients do things with familiars they are evil and "scary".

It's hilarious, too, because this has always been the case. The sundered have less regard for such life forms (created or otherwise) than the ancients, and Sharlayan even mimics their practice of creating things similar to familiars, but you would have to recall that knowledge to realise that... and then 6.1 goes and shoves it right into the MSQ, courtesy of the MC suggesting it, too, depending on dialogue pick.

[Teraq]

IMO having a sundered Ascian who caught wind of Fandaniel's maniacal plan and sought to oppose him by joining up with us while still being spicy and disagreeing with us and adding a much-needed different perspective (and criticism of our sparkle-queen) would have certainly made me less rabid about the story. Just a bit.
[...]
It's just that the Sundered are weaker... and more prone to falling prey to their dark nature, which the Ascians used to their advantage, while the Unsundered were better at keeping it under wraps unless under extreme circumstances.

I just wanted Pashtarot to scream at Fandaniel to STOP BREAKING THE LAW, ASSHOLE!

And imagine Sundered humanity with the creation powers of Ancients lol. Dead Ends World 2 would look positively sane.

I think part of the problem is that the writers assume that people just relate with the Sundered first and foremost because 'tHeY aRe Us', conveniently ignoring that actually many of us relate to or at least sympathise with the game's antagonists.

This is really the feeling I got from Ishikawa's "Was what Hermes did wrong or was it the first step for humanity?". I... uh... I guess only some humans are human enough. Apparently I'm not supposed to care for the not-really-human Ancients. But didn't the weight of Shadowbringers rest on exactly this?

and then 6.1 goes and shoves it right into the MSQ, courtesy of the MC suggesting it, too, depending on dialogue pick.

Hah, as if anyone would pick anything but (glances at Estinien)

[Lauront]

That whole musing of hers was laughable. It'd be a step for original mankind, not "the first step", if he didn't then go doom the entire universe some like whiny little self-indulgent brat, and wipe memory of it.

[Teraq]

The hilarious thing was seeing people on Twitter and reddit after that letter talking about how genius it was as an idea.

I actually don't know what they meant by this. Am I to understand that Hermes just built his Twitter botnet that eventually degenerated into a feedback loop of nihilism which he then constantly doomscrolled through and retweeted, at the expense of the few human contacts he actually had? Is he meant to be a parody of a blackpill echo chamber? Or did they mean they were inspired by the "ASCIAN/GARLEAN STANS AND PROSHIPPERS DNI PLEASE READ MY CARRD" crowd? I am hopelessly confused.

It was, like, so deep man. Almost as deep as "life is suffering" as a concept. Seriously, who hit Ishikawa over the head with the bad writer stick during this writing process?

Twitter, is there a point to living? WHY LIFE IF DEATH?????

[anhaato]

Not gonna lie, when I read the live letter when they said that Hermes and Meteion characters were based on "social media (like twitter)", that I began to.......question the integrity of the writing team, lets put it that way.

...That wasn't just a joke? I seriously thought that was just a meme.

[PawPaw]

Am I to understand that Hermes just built his Twitter botnet that eventually degenerated into a feedback loop of nihilism which he then constantly doomscrolled through and retweeted, at the expense of the few human contacts he actually had?

I mean...sounds like Twitter to me.

...That wasn't just a joke? I seriously thought that was just a meme.

Sadly no...

[Lauront]

...That wasn't just a joke? I seriously thought that was just a meme.

It's no joke. It's from here.